The LNER Encyclopedia

Hi Everyone,

Had a few months away from modelling - DIY projects and other commitments taking me away - but looking to make a start on another project. I've got an Isinglass GNR dia 257 brake third on the bench. This has been supplied with end windows. This ties in with the Isinglass drawing included, but this drawing covers the two similar diagrams, 256 and 257. Looking through 'GNR and ECJS Carriages from 1905' by Michael Harris, Plate 86 shows a Dia 257 in BR times, with a standard bowed end and no sign of end windows. I am aware windows were boarded up under the LNER, but they are not present at all in this picture.

As far as I can tell there are a few options here:

1. The Isinglass drawing has failed to mention that the end windows are not present on the Dia 257, and the Dia 257s were all built with standard bowed ends.

2. The dia 257s were built with end windows, but sometime between 1907 and the photo in Harris' book, the windows were entirely removed.

3. Harris has got the wrong diagram number in his caption in the book (wouldn't be the first time), and the 257s actually did retain the end windows (albeit boarded up)

Anyone have any thoughts?

Thanks in advance,

Joshua

The GN diagram shows windows in both ends for both. I think the one in the lav would have been boarded up from building, but I'm open to correction on that one.

Ends could have been replaced or repanelled due to rot or collision damage, so once the decision had been taken to dispense with the windows it would be increasingly likely with the passage of time that an end might be repanelled and all external trace of the window be lost.

Thanks Jonathan,

That makes things slightly more of a minefield! Am I right in suspecting all windows would be boarded up by the late 30s? I'm sure I remember reading that the LNER didn't waste too much time in that process.

As for the further step of replacement of windows with panelling externally as you have described, I imagine that that's on a vehicle-by-vehicle basis, so presumably I need to have a look out for any more photos from the period to see if I can find a prototypical precedent for either way. If anyone else has a head start on that, I'd love to hear from you!

Thanks,

Joshua

I'm going to help even less now....looking at the Seabrook collection pictures there are a number of D257s. Where the ends are sufficiently visible, I found two with boarded up end windows, three with plain panelling and two with the very small square window at the brake end. I think you can probably do what you like the look of best and get away with it.

Hello Jonathan,

The GNR GA's for both diagram 256 and 257 show end windows at both ends of the vehicle and there are no later notes commenting on boarding etc. I am building a RDEB version of this vehicle and there is mention of boarding from memory... I am away from home at the moment so can't check.

Unfortunately both official GNR photographs of the Diagrams are side on views with no chance of looking at the ends.

I have found one 1935 view of a Dia 256/257 on what could be a Cambridge Buffet Working and the end in view is panelled, a further picture by Dr I Allen ( Undated) again on the CBE of a Dia 257 with a small square window on the left hand end of the guards compartment.

Hopefully this may help.
Steve

www.gnrsociety.com