The LNER Encyclopedia

I'm returning to OO modelling after many years away.
I want to model LNER A3 and A4 locos.
Can someone educate me on the various Hornby Gresley Coaches?
I see numbers in the 740 range and also current numbers.
What are the correct coaches to run behaind a blue Mallard?

To run behind a (LNER) blue Mallard- circa late 1930's period- you want the Hornby 'teak' effect Gresleys. On Hornby's website these are listed #R170- R174 inclusive. all represent mainline coaches and would be appropriate for a ECML train.

There are some niggling issues about the shape of the sides of these coaches, but all I know is the wood effect is so brilliant that I could certainly not come close to applying it myself. That would be the bottom line for me!

Bear in mind also that Ian Kirk kits are still available (plastic modular construction, but will need a fair bit of work to build with detail) and Comet models do some stunning etched brass Gresley coaches. Mailcoach make kits of the 'Coronation' steel sided coaches, which in their special livery of blue-white were designed to match the blue 'Streaks'. Phoenix kits also do nice Gresley coaches. again- etched. Some of the steel-sided stuff is interesting for a late 30's train= it was finished in a high-gloss fake teak effect.

enjoy- you're a lucky chap if you have room to run a full mainline formation!!

W

Thanks for the info, I have a room that is 13'6'' by 13'6" and I plan to run a double track around the walls.

What's the difference between the Hornby Teak coaches R745 thru 749
and the current numbers R 4170 thru 4174? Where the earlier numbers from Triang?

Tried to look but don't have the catalogues for the 80's/90's handy. R745 and R746 are if I am correct Thompson coaches- (do they have oval windows at the ends?- and flush sides?) So unless your Mallard is in POSTWAR blue livery (i.e silver-steel numbers affixed to the cab and no skirts covering the driving wheels) these would be inappropriate, representing as they do coaches built in the late 40's. Some Gresley coaches were flush sided before the war, but look very different to Thompson coaches.

an ebay search for R748-9 comes up with LMS coaches so dunno what's happening there!!

I believe R745-6 were moved to Bachmann's range and although have now been retired are available really cheap at swap meets- or even new from places like Hattons occasionly. It seems no one wants Thompson coaches alas, especially not in the drab postwar LNER brown paint scheme (I like it actually...just wish I had the space!)

The new Hornby Gresleys replace the long running predecessors, which are very much available second hand, and although not representing specific vehicles are good ways of making a budget fleet if you need large numbers.

The main issues I couldnt live with re the older Hornby coaches is a length probably more representative of 'everyday' secondary coaches rather than ECML coaches (useful for tight curves though!), as is the large number of compartment-side doors, which was reduced on mainline stock by the later 30's in order to make them look more modern. examples of cat numbers (recent anyway) are R477 AND R478

hope this helps,

Will

Will,
I quoted the wrong numbers, I meant R477/8/9 which are I believe Gresley teak coaches.

If you have been away for a while buy the new Hornby catalogue. This will show you the latest versions of the teak coaches which are far and away more accurate than the previous models. The earlier coaches were shortened to fit a standard underframe whilst the very early Triang Hornby stuff was just rough representations of the sides sat on a BR Mk1 coach chassis. To complicate things even more they do a teak Clerestory (gas lit with a hump the length of the roof) in a train set which is aimed at the beginner and does not really represent anything LNER.
If you are looking for steel sided coaches built by Gresleys succesors (1940's) then Bachmann do a fairly good model.
I understand Pullmans would also be relevant for your loco, again there are early models which whilst quite accuate are not a patch on the newer versions.
If you are tempted by one of the special offers or train packs study the photo carefully to make sure you are getting the latest stuff and not older less detailed items aimed at the toy end of the market.
Take a look at the websites of Hornby/ Bachmann if (like me) you think the catalogues are a bit on the expensive side.

With regard to the popularity of Thompson coaches - Its interesting to hear that they go very cheap at swapmeats - the same cannot be said for ebay - these often go for 14+ quid or so plus p and p, in LNER brown and BR maroon. I find this surprising given the outdated look to these models (e.g. no flush glazing, poor roof detail...). For the last three years I have been hoping that Bachmann would do a decent job on these attractive coaches, but no sign - hence my eye on e-bay to build the Elizabethan...

regards

buy a (pre-bachman) Hornby Thompson for about £5, brass sides from Southern Pride for £8, and a few other bits and bobs, incluing new Bachmann Thompson bogies for £2.50 from Hattons, and a flush-glazed, fine brass sided Thompson coach can be yours! I did one before I went 'pre war' in my interests, and found it an easy and fun conversion.

http://www.spride.demon.co.uk/index2.htm

I find the Hornby old gresleys are nice models when detailed. It doesnt cost much to add seperate wire handrails, white metal roof ventilators, repaint in Phoenix 'Teak' paint, and lower the ride height by shaving around 2mm from the bogie pivots. It all came down to cost-balance for me, but I suspect I am not alone!!

I know of a chap who runs a rake of Hornby gresleys cunningly converted to represent GNR stock. The short lenght is probably more correct for GNR coaches, and in converting them the fox pattern bogies were the only big expense (not needed for all types though), and body mods were basically only the addition new window bars/re-arrangement, using a couple of quids worth of plastic strip. I imagine the GNR transfers for a full rake was the most expensive bit!!

Re the Triang/Hornby Clerestory. I love 'em!!

I reckon they look suspiciously like Robinson GCR 1900's Mainline stock. I ran a few in both LNER brown and ex-GCR (numbered for early LNER period) 'varnished Mahogany' livery- they looked nice. I only ever spend a few quid detailing them and got nearly £20 each for them (from a GCR enthusiast no less!) when i moved from 4mm scale and traded in my stuff!!!




ok- so no one is going to mistake the 'generic' coach for the Perserverence GCR kit, but it aint THAT bad a comparison, not when I could buy a full rake of Hornby coaches for the cost of a single kit!

each to his own- but I still think there is scope to slip a detailed older Hornby coach into a rake of super-detailed modern Hornby Gresleys.

Will

I agree that a lot can be done with the various old Hornby models - and I do this from time to time - its quite fun painting the teak. But for the Elizabethan I need about 10 coaches - I just know my enthusiasm will dwindle by about coach two and a half! This is the same reason why I scratch-build half-timbered buildings instead of beautiful Georgian fronts with countless identical windows - they can look fabulous in 4mm, but I just wouldn't enjoy that kind of journey...

Nice looking coaches by the way...

Regards

Will - BTW - what did you do about glazing for the old hornby clerestories?

cheers

What is a typical configuration for a rake of coaches hauled by an A3 or A4? Was there a standard amount of coaches?

wehf100 wrote:The wood effect is brilliant

I don't know if they've fixed it now, but on early models the grain of the teak-effect printing on the door panels ran the wrong way - vertically, instead of horizontally - spoiling an otherwise excellent appearance.

I think the teak has been fixed on the new ones.

For glazing the old Hornby clerestory there was nothing for it, but either accepting the old glazing (which I did for a couple of mine) or making window templates and fitting new windows individually. Very delicate and I only did two coaches and left the others well alone!


fliermike-

http://www.trainformations.co.uk/LNER/L ... ress_1.php

should help. That said, a fair bit of juggling went on with rakes in the steam era, not least as maintenence schedules for wooden coaches required coaches to be taken out of service for repair quite often- so nothing was really set in stone like today. One feature that was usually fixed for a 'Scotsman' was the use of a 'Triplet' articulated restraunt set. Ian Kirk kits can be used to make something really rather impressive, but again it takes up a lot of space!

Will

The train formations site is excellent, thank you.

I realise this is an old thread, but rather than starting a new thread.

Is anyone able to tell me when Gresley introduced the carriages depicted by the current Hornby offeings? Was it pre or post grouping?

Martin