The LNER Encyclopedia

Prompted by my questions on the C1 Atlantic recently and having had a notification of Narrow Planet dispatching my C1 builders plates, I decided to start a thread for the subject of one of the builds.

The first build which is some way off yet, is to be of LNER 4419, the C1 Atlantic that Gresley fitted an experimental booster engine to in order to assist on difficult starts with heavy loads. This loco is dear to my heart because it features in one of Chris's paintings.



The starting point is the ACE Kit, this was chosen despite known shortcomings primarily because at the time I bought it that's all there was available. For the next one (to be build as the prototype 251) I may have a go with the Gladiator Kit.



When I enquired of William Ascough of ACE Product as to whether he did a kit specific for 4419 he advised that he didn't but he would sell me the etches for a Gresley Cab for an extra £10

Having received the kit I noted the whitemetal crossheads and on a flyer included in the kit an advert for a set of brass replacements for a further £18. Some were ordered and collected at Telford.

On to what you get in the kit

The chassis:



Now the observant amongst you (who will be better than me because I hadn't noticed it until a recent post on the Guild forum) will note that there is a bearing support/hole right in the middle of the arch where the rear of the front bogie would swivel within the frames! Whoever designed and thought this a good idea needs some meds I think.

Now that I am aware of it it isn't a problem because I bought the kit knowing that as a minimum I would need to extend the chassis frames so chopping a bit out is a small matter. I can imagine the dismay of a first time builder trying to get that to go together as is though Ouch!

The Body etches:







The extra Gresley Cab etches:



The Tender Etches.



Thankfully there appears nothing too untoward with the tender etches other than them actually fitting together of course which I won't know until I build it of course. That said a friend of mine has built a couple of these so I know that you can get them together.

I will continue on a second post before this one has too many images.

Moving swiftly on we get to the castings



Rather worryingly the bag with the bearings etc in is marked C13 rather than C1 so I may not have all I should have but most of it won't be getting used due to my fitting hornblocks.

This is the whitemetal crosshead!!!!



The additional brass castings:



The is in fact a second rod with a nut on the end which lodged in the bag so missed the photo. without checking my guess is that these are the valve guides.

For me William should include these in the basic kit and put the price up accordingly, it would make the kit so much more buildable.

On that note I was admiring another friends build of an ACE D49 which apparently only comes with one side of the smokebox saddle in the etches the other was missed off so you either need to scratch build one (easy enough if you no about it) or againapprently ACE do a whitemetal casting for the smokebox saddle that will cost you and additional £7. Why on earth its not included when the part is missing in the first place baffles me. It seems a strange way to do business.

Finally I have these:
They are Walsall Model Industries Castings which were turned for me by Colin Dowling ( the photo of them is courtesy of Colin and his copyright).

I also have quite a bit of research materials:

Issinglass Drawing for 4419
GA of the rear cab area inc booster engine.
Yeadon Register Volume 13 - C1-C5 Atlantics
The book Great Northern Atlantics by OS Nock which also includes a GA side view and a detailed plan of the booster engine which I do hope to replicate in detail now that have the lathe.

Hi Rob,

Do those bizarre extra bearing holes cater for the unlikely possibility of somebody wanting to build the chassis as what in effect would be a 2-6-2 with odd sized wheels in the middle group? Maybe the idea is that a fixed hind axle of what should be the bogie will solve potential problems of clearances behind crossheads and in front of the leading coupled wheels?
I've seen only one of these kits built in the past, and the builder had added the firebox as a very obvious overlapping wrapper on the rear of the boiler barrel, creating a very unrealistic raised top to the firebox. You will no doubt look out for that problem and with your skills will easily solve it.

HI Graeme,

I really have no idea what went on in the designer's head with those.... for those that haven't picked up what Graeme spotted read on.

Well, I know that ACE don't have the best of reputations but up to now I haven't really been aware first hand at why that might be. - Bear with me this is going somewhere...

Feeling a little bogged down on the Coronation I decided to cut out the frames for the C1 so that I can place them on my Isinglass drawing to get an idea of how much I need to add to the frames to get them to the right length. The silly bearing mounts in the front of the frames were offending me too so out them came.

Apologies for using the same photo again but it was easier to show those who hadn't looked too closely initially what I am talking about with my latter comment




Here we go much better.





In the photo above, if you enlarge it and look closely you can also see some etched dimples marking where rivets are to be pressed out. Nothing wrong with that you might think, apart from the fact that they are etched on the wrong side

More by luck than design, this is redeemable because the section of the frames with these rivets on, is in fact removed and soldered above the footplate later in the build. So it's a simple matter to reverse them at that point to get the rivets on the right side.

Having done the preparation above which included de-cusping the frames I decide to have a peek at the Gresley cab which William kindly supplied. I am not sure which kit this comes from it could be one of quite a few in the range (Gresley A1/A3, P2,02 etc.) and it may even be a mistake in packing (although I suspect not having heard of similar issues before) but I have two of the same cab sides.




For me and this build it's not the end of the world, I will just drill out the etched dimples and put proper rivets in where needed or fill the holes with rod and file them smooth. For this build I won't need the washout plug type fittings on the lower cab side and I would have had to do something about them even if they had been handed correctly so again I will drill them out and fill with brass rod.
It's those little details though that could and would stymie an inexperienced builder who is attracted to ACE kit's by the lower prices when compared to kit's from other suppliers. Sadly even the small mistakes like this don't seem to get corrected but add great weight to the poor reputation of the range.

I bought this kit knowing full well that I wanted to significantly change it to get the model that I want at the end and as such any issues would be dealt with as I went along. I have another couple of ACE kit's in my collection (J52 and GER Coffee Pot) and there are at least a couple in the range that cover prototypes that I would like to model, however it will be interesting to see, when I get to the others what issues I may encounter with those that could so easily be sorted to enhance the reputation.

I do plan a second build of a C1 now that I have the plates so at the end of the build I will make the decision as to whether to buy a second ACE kit or to buy the Gladiator ex Modellers world kit, which may have issues of it's own after reading the blurb on the Gladiator site:

"This is the original Modellers world GNR/LNER C1 Large boilered Atlantic loco and tender kit. Our plan is to redraw the kit but initially we will produce as before but in thicker material."

I have only had experience of Modellers world 4mm coaches before and the etches were like tissue paper. Etching them from a thicker material sounds like a plan but it may have a knock on effect on the fit of the parts. It would be good to see a build of the re-released kit before taking the plunge.

Robpulham wrote: ↑Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:39 pm HI Graeme,

I really have no idea what went on in the designer's head with those.... for those that haven't picked up what Graeme spotted read on.

It is for building the loco as a 2-6-2 (or 2-2-4-2) to avoid problems with bogie wheels and cylinders interacting on sharp curves.