The LNER Encyclopedia

Hello everyone

I hope you'll excuse me posting on here I feel a bit of a fraud because I only really have a passing interest in steam trains and the only two that have always stood out to me are the Mallard and the Flying Scotsman.

I am, however, a massive Spurs fan (well someone has too ) and while I was in Basrah recently I got into a conversation with a Sgt about the LNER (oddly starting out as a conversation about Rutland ) and he told me that the LNER operated a train called "Tottenham Hotspur" but when British Railways took over they renamed it as "Arsenal" because they were the better side in the 1950's.

So that's why I am here I was hoping to pick your brains if I may and ask if anyone knows if the LNER did operate the "Tottenham Hotspur", does anyone produce a model of the train if they did or could the current Hornby model of the 'Scum' ( ) be converted into the 'Spurs' and if there is anyone who produces the decals?

Without meaning to be patronising but this is the Hornby train I'm on about;-


And here is a version I've found on ebay in LNER colours that I was wondering if it could be converted;-
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... K:MEWA:BID

Many thanks for taking the time to read this babble

Dan.

There were two Tottenham Hotspurs! The LNER "Footballers" were class B17. These were also known as "Sandringhams" after the first one. Names were either halls /stately homes or football clubs.

Here's the page for the B17s if you want some history:

http://www.lner.info/locos/B/b17.shtml

Some of the B17s were rebuilt as "Thompson B2s" - but not Tottenham Hotspur.

No. 2870 was named from Manchester City to "Tottenham Hotspur" in May 1937, then renamed "City of London" in September 1937. The above page has a picture of it in that four month window.

The other was No. 2830 "Thoresby Park" which was renamed "Tottenham Hotspur" in January 1938. This was rebuilt as a B17/6 in December 1948.
Renumbered as "1630" in August 1946, and 61630 by BR (December 1948).

So I think someone has been pulling your leg with the Arsenal story...

To back it up, I've found two photos of No. 61630. One in 1952 ex-Works, and another "in the 1950s" at Doncaster. The nameplates clearly say "Tottenham Hotspur". The pictures are on Pages 23 and 69 of "Yeadon's Register of LNER Locomotives Vol. 5 (Gresley B17 & Thompson B2)".

Transfers? I should think so - I'll let one of the 4mm/OO specialists give recommendations.

Dapol have also announced a new B17 release for the summer, in N Gauge (about half the size of OO). They are concentrating on the Footballers but "Tottenham Hotspur" is not one of the initial releases. They seem to be avoiding the big names of today - perhaps hoping for special tie-ins? I'll be putting my money down for "Doncaster Rovers" - because it is the only one of the first release that will be in the colour I want

Richard

Up the Hammers!!!!!!!

try Fox Transfers / Jackson Evans for nameplates if you have to have one with that name

If Dan wants an OO model of Tottenham Hotspur, some model shops are able to re-number and re-name locomotives for their customers. I don't know how they do it, but they do and they do it very well! I should warn Dan that this re-numbering and re-naming is going to be an expensive business, especially if the name-plates have to be specially produced. Two model shops that have done excellent work for me are The Model Centre and Moray's Models.

Dan will have to decide if he wants his locomotive in LNER or BR colours. I personally prefer the LNER colour scheme because that is how I like to remember the B17's. My own B17 is 2859 "Norwich City" in LNER green. I don't know if a B17 is available new today to be used as a "donor". He may have to obtain one secondhand from a model shop or via e-bay.

Sir Brian

Hello again!

Thanks for your replies - that article about the B17's in particular Richard! I never realised that the LNER streamlined anything other than the A4

As for making a model it looks like my luck's in I've found some Jackson Evans nameplates for Tottenham Hotspur (Thanks for the pointer Mick!) and it looks like Hornby are still producing, or are going to reproduce the 'Norwich City' Sirbrian mentioned;

http://www.hornby.com/locomotives-89/ln ... oduct.html

I am a keen modelmaker so I am going to try to rename a model of the Norwich City myself. I hope you don't mind me picking your brains again but my 'evil plan' is to remove the '59' from the model using a fibreglass pen (using a technique I've read recently in a modelling magazine that explains that this way is less likely to damage the paint underneath) and replace the number using decals. Next I hope that the orignal nameplate will come away using a modelling knife (covered with masking tape to protect the paintwork again) and the new one cemented in place. I was just wondering if it's as, ahem, "simple" as that

I've also noticed that underneath the "Norwich City" and "Arsenal" on the Hornby models are coloured yellow and red respectively. Are these railway markings of some kind or are they related to thier teams I'm guessing repainting the yellow with white would suit the "Tottenham Hotspur" so would I damage the model if I were to use Humbrol Emamel paints

Thanks again for your help!

Dan

Hi there Dan

Just in relation to the colours found beneath the name plate, these are actually team colours (the orb in the centre represents a soccer ball), you you may have to find out what colours Tottenham Hotspur carried. And as far as I'm aware Humbrol paint is fine to use, but you might want to double-check that...

Hope this helps

just happened to notice this thread in passing... altho not a model, so forgive me for intruding on this subject, there are a series of damn fine prints available of nearly all the 'Footballers' built

Footballer prints

it also shows in detail all the splashers for the clubs at the time of build

I have the Hull City print and very smart it looks too

mick b wrote:Up the Hammers!!!!!!!

try Fox Transfers / Jackson Evans for nameplates if you have to have one with that name

Just looked at Fox for A4 plates, and it appears when they run out of N plates, they aren't producing any more!

Richard - I do hope you're not going to paint over the hearty Doncaster Rovers with a premiere league name!

My Dad and I made the trip up to Belle Vue (Doncaster) to see the Rovers play Arsenal in the Leage cup (whatever its called these days) 1/4 final a couple of years back. (The slightly odd thing is that we had to watch it in the Arsenel end - My Dad's next door neighbour's son works for Arsenal, and thats how we got the tickets! Conveniently, our red and white scarves didn't really give us away!) Doncaster actually won the game 2-1, but that's not what you will have seen reported. The ref added a completely imaginary 6 minutes injury time at the end of the second half (the reality was 1.5 minutes, tops). This was enough for Arsenal to scramble an equalizer (poor old Doncaster had no legs left), and then win it on penalties. Ah well; we were the only ones with smiles on our faces in the Arsenal end for a wee while...

No I wouldn't rename it. It would also be a bit unusual here in Texas - I bet few people would realise that it was a football team - whilst a few might have heard of Arsenal, Man.U, etc...

(football is also something else here)

Richard

Hmm, a B17 as the Dallas Cowboys or Houston Texans. Perish the thought...

Hi please check this out you might like what you see http://www.locos-in-profile.co.uk/Print ... lates.html The man does some good work.
I am following the path of 61654