The LNER Encyclopedia

Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum, and indeed new to the LNER.

Basically, I'm building a layout inspired by LNER-era Kings Cross, largely due to my ownership of two old-style Hornby Pacifics in LNER livery with associated stock. While it's a long way from being a perfect replica of the Cross, I'd like it where possible to resemble the real thing. So, I have a few questions.

1. What colours would the platform furniture, fittings etc. have been in LNER days?

2. I recently acquired a Lima J50 to help out with shunting (I don't think these ran at the Cross in LNER days, but I just like the engines). It's finished in LNER apple green - was this authentic?

3. What colour was the ballast used on LNER lines around London? This might sound like a strange question, but I understand that different areas used different stone. Would a sort of dirty brown do?

4. I'd like to model parcels services and suburban trains. I've come across nothing ready-to-run by way of suitable stock, so are there any kits available? Plastic for preference, as I have no experience whatsoever with brass.

Anyway, sorry if these sound like terribly newbie questions, but I'd be extremely grateful if they could be answered.

Many thanks.

Welcome to the forums Tom.

As a book reference there's "The Great British Railway Station Kings Cross" from Irwell Press. Also BRM Sept. 2007 has a cover article "Kings Cross in N". Yes, not your scale, but it should be useful. Also (I've got it in front of me), it looks like they've gone for 1956. Still, it should be useful for things like ballast colours, etc. Also one approach to selective compression.

For suburban trains, then you'll need an N2. I believe Hornby sell one of those. The classic coaching stock would have been a quad-art. I'm pretty certain this is available as a kit for 4mm (I'm not a 4mm modeller).

I'm pretty certain I've seen photos of J50s at Kings Cross, but I think they must have been in later BR datys. They were built for the West Riding after all.

Richard

Hi
Coopercraft make a number of plastic ex Ian Kirk coach kits including the Quad Art in 4mm.
The J50 would normally be plain black as a shunter. The green version is probably based on a post war one off . There was a J72 in lined green post war as well.
Chivers Finelines are bringing out a 4 wheel ex GNR Parcel Van in plastic in the next couple of weeks
Ballast dont know but a mixture of colours mainly greys, I would suggest very dark/oily anywhere locos stood for coaling etc

Mick

For a start try taking a look at "The Gresley Beat" as featured on these pages. From York Model Railway show 2007

viewtopic.php?t=797&start=0&postdays=0& ... highlight=

mick b wrote:Hi
Coopercraft make a number of plastic ex Ian Kirk coach kits including the Quad Art in 4mm.
The J50 would normally be plain black as a shunter. The green version is probably based on a post war one off . There was a J72 in lined green post war as well.
Chivers Finelines are bringing out a 4 wheel ex GNR Parcel Van in plastic in the next couple of weeks
Ballast dont know but a mixture of colours mainly greys, I would suggest very dark/oily anywhere locos stood for coaling etc

Mick

Hornby did produce a black J52 with LNER lettering. That would be useful for transfer freights. I suppose a J39 (Bachmann) would be an occasional visitor, and there was an N2 by Mainline/Dapol? These come up on Ebay or can be picked up at swapmeets from time to time.


I have built a couple of the ex-Iain Kirk 51'1" suburban coach kits, and they are pretty straightforward, and I am pleased with the results.

Many thanks, everyone, that's a fantastic response all round there - you've given me more information than a week of trawling the Internet on my own.

I think my number one priority at the moment in terms of stock is an N2, as these seem to be the master of all work at Kings Cross. They look to have been used on everything from shunting to banking to commuter trains to goods. One of those, with Flying Scotsman, Sir Ralph Wedgewood and the Gresley coaches, would be a good start until I can get some more varied rolling stock.

The Gresley Beat is just amazing. It's given me some inspiration, although I must admit that my layout is going to struggle to be even a tenth as good as that - if the Gresley Beat was chilled champagne, my layout would be a warm can of Special Brew. The inspiration came from this web page:
http://carendt.com/scrapbook/page67/index.html
The idea I borrowed was the eighth one down, Suttons Road. This sounded perfect for me - I have very limited space but, like many modellers, I have several big engines. Many of these are not LNER, hence part of the reason why I haven't gone for a perfect replica.

I also managed to acquire a couple of Hornby's "Platform 9 3/4" sets from their Harry Potter range dirt cheap, which gave me several accessories. With a little redecoration and weathering, it's not looking too bad, although research trips to the Cross in my lunch hour have revealed that Hornby's resin castings bear only a loose resemblance to the genuine article.

The J50's were most likely plain black. If modelling the cross I would recomend a few Hornby N2s for suburban services and maybe a bachmann V1 or 3 in LNER lined black.

Take a look at the GCR for parcel stock info they have quite a large collection of LNER stock of different types. I think even the mail coach itself is LNER.

If was to be modelling the cross I would be looking at modelling the Coronation train in blue and white. If you want any help on train formations I sure someone on the forum will know.

I think this might be Destiny at work - I just found an N2 at a bargain price in my local model shop. Unfortunately it's a Mainline example, so rather noisy, but otherwise I'm very happy with the price I paid - especially since they knocked a fiver off because the quartering was a little out (I think I've fixed it). My recent eBay purchases have finally arrived - two Gresley coaches in teak. They're the older Hornby type, but that doesn't bother me. It's not that I don't think the new Hornby coaches are fine models, but when I can get four old coaches second-hand for the price of one new one it's no contest on my present budget.

The Coronation is indeed a very fine-looking train, and just the thing to add more variety and colour to the station. The LNER used to be my favourite company when I was much younger, partly because of the Pacifics and partly because of the variety of liveries. I don't think I'd be able to model much of it, though. The layout is designed to hold one express engine and two coaches in the platform, the idea being that the rest of the train is "offstage". Only three platforms are modelled, the rest of them being glimpsed through the brick arches on the backscene. Thus, the layout takes up less space, and my flatmates don't get annoyed. It's going to be pretty basic, but it's partly designed so that it can be easily upgraded in future.

Locomotives at the cross in more detail (top shed allocation) after nationalisation at listed on the locoshed index

http://www.locosheds.co.uk/locos.asp?sh ... 48&code=KX

Locos to lookout for produced ready to run
Original A1 (Hornby)
A3 (Hornby)
A4 (Hornby or Bachmann)
B1 (Bachmann)
K3 (Bachmann)
V2 (Bachmann)
V1/3 (Bachmann)
J39 (Bachmann)
there are many others but these are some of the best produced. A good place to get cheap locos new is Hattons see http://www.ehattons.co.uk/

Regarding parcels trains, I have one of the Chivers Finelines 4 wheel parcels vans.
I am delighted with this model.
I had it built for me by Les Hodge of Yorkshire.

Being rather short, it fits perfectly on smaller layouts. It was also called a pigeon van, because it could be (or was) fitted with racks that suited the baskets.
It is to LNER diagram 120W.
Les painted it in post-war LNER brown.

It looks good lined up with other full brakes (Hornby, Bachmann etc), and CCT vans. Dapol do a CCT van, and also Ian Kirk kits do a straight sided LNER one which looks different.

regards
Kimball

wowsa- going for the 'holy grail' then? Regarding colours- the only thing I'd emphasise is the grime! The station, and particularly the retaining walls/tunnel entraces were extensivley steam cleaned on electrification of the line. Indeed, it is often repeated that the tunnels were so dirty that no one noticed they were built in different stones until after cleaning!

good luck. With all that soaring arcading between the main arches, you could always put a mirror between each arch to 'double' the space?

Will

68946 a J50/3 was shedded at the cross in 1959

Look at the model of Kings Cross on the Gainsborough Model Railway site
Just google it in it will find it.

A few comments on J50s

In early LNER days they were black with red lining
in 1928 the lining was dropped
After the war it was the companies intention to paint all loco's green (apart from "the blue 'uns")
only 8891 (a J50/1 - a GNR built engine with a coal cage bunker) was given the green treatment
In BR days the J50s were always black, with varying degrees of filth

The class didn't appear in London until after the war. My father recalled how horrified he was when he saw his first one at Hornsey, considering them ugly after the saddle tanks (J52) he was used to.

The J50s took over from the saddle tanks but their reign was brief as the 0-6-0 diesel shunters ousted them. I remember seeing J50/4s (the ones with the big hopper coal bunkers) at "The Cross" dealing with empty stock.

I've always been fond of the class, indeed I built a 4mm white metal kit of one in the early seventies. I have two J50s (built from etched brass kits) on my O gauge layout. One is a J50/1, the previously mentioned 68891, but not in green, total filth! This was built from a truly awful kit, many parts of which I had to replace (poor fit, bad design or just plain wrong). The other is 68973, a J50/3, built from an excellent Conoisseur kit, a delight to put together.
Does anybody know of a source of 7mm castings of the thistle style lubricators?

Chaz