2750 (Tom's) Workbench-North Eastern Modelling 1938

[Tom F]

Sorry picture is in Yeadon copywright.
The aussie version is not a 94A the front washout plug is in front of the second band as well as the other plugs being close together. Save your money and get Flying Fox if you can find one

Mick

I intend too chap, but I still need a corridor tender, do you have a pic of the other side of your Salmon Trout

Tom

[mick b]

Tom
"Bad" news in that Salmon Trout has the Aussie boiler set up on the nearside. I wont be losing any sleep over mine !! never have much luck anyway !!
Track a NRM version down and that will give you the corridor tender as well. All you will need to do is source a new single chimney the double came off easily on mine. Fill a couple of small holes where the smoke deflectors are fitted and remove with Tcut the overhead power markings and fit a Vac pipe .

Mick

[davidwest]

I think when Tony Wright reviewed the NRM Scotsman - he refered to the boiler wash out plugs position as unique to the Scotsman and unsuitable for any other meber of the class. I'll try to dig out the article.

Sauce for the goose!

Personally I have an A3 Ex the White Knight masqurading as Ladas, with deflectors and of course a 94A boiler, it should be a 107. I've toyed with the idea of re-renaming it to Spearmint, Gladiator or Enterprise, or removing the deflectors and back dating it a little as I model the 1958-62 period. But to be honest the pain isn't worth it.

[Tom F]

Tom
"Bad" news in that Salmon Trout has the Aussie boiler set up on the nearside. I wont be losing any sleep over mine !! never have much luck anyway !!
Track a NRM version down and that will give you the corridor tender as well. All you will need to do is source a new single chimney the double came off easily on mine. Fill a couple of small holes where the smoke deflectors are fitted and remove with Tcut the overhead power markings and fit a Vac pipe .

Mick

Cheers Mick, wouldn't the Aussie one be easiest. Correct chimney no need to remove deflectors etc

I was concerned the boiler bands were all white but I have seen closer glimpse and they aren't, they are black with white as they should be

Tom

[mick b]

Easy answer yes but Aussie is rarer and more expensive. The NRM version is still for sale . There maybe holes in the footplate for the flags as well?? on the Aussie version.

[Atlantic 3279]

My previous reply doesn't seem to have helped to stop the struggle to identify these boilers by simple observation, maybe a closer look at the pictures will help:

dia 94A.jpg (12.24 KiB) Viewed 8250 times

Dia 94A is the second high pressure (220psi) version of the original Gresley 180lb boiler, sporting a steam banjo in lieu of earlier round dome of dia 94 (180lb) and 94HP (220lb) boilers. The firebox has the original short combustion chamber standard to all Gresley A1/A3 boilers, so the cone of the boiler and the cone of the firebox casing meet at the position of the boiler band that stands immediately adjacent to the top of the visible sloping front of the lower part of the firebox (the wrapper over the throat plate area).

dia 107.jpg (11.06 KiB) Viewed 8244 times

Dia 107 is an exchange/recycled boiler off an A4. The combustion chamber in the firebox was longer and the boiler barrel shorter, hence the two cones or tapers of the boiler shape meet further forward, and the overlying boiler band marking the front of the combustion chamber is a scale foot ahead of the top of the sloping front of the lower firebox. Note that the row of 5 washout plugs also extends further forward in order to make it possible to wash the sides of the longer combustion chamber. The 2 upper oval mudhole doors are no longer more or less level, but are staggered. The banjo is further forwards.

dia 107 in disguise.jpg (15.5 KiB) Viewed 8246 times

Your preserved Scotsman has a dia 107 boiler which was fitted to keep it in steam, but the outer clothing has been tinkered with to make it look more like a 94A. The band, and the juntion of the cones of the clothing plates at least, have been put further back. The washout plugs and mudholes have not however been altered and they give the game away. BR did not mess about with this attempted subterfuge, so this boiler appearance is an "in preservation only" phenomenon. Note also that Hornby have modelled the banjo in the 94A position. I don't know if this has been achieved on the actual boiler, and if so how it was done....

[S.A.C. Martin]

The answer chap, is that they didn't:



From wikipedia - creative commons distribution.

Basically, the banjo dome is further forward on this, the A4 boiler, as opposed the A3 boiler.

Basically - Hornby got it wrong! It should have been a diagram 107 as in the pic directly above the NRM Scotsman model pic, IF you were wanting to model Scotsman as preserved in 2005...!

[Atlantic 3279]

Thanks Simon, nice clarification.

I wonder if somebody on Mr Kohler's staff had to explain to the boss why, having gone to so much trouble with details such as the washout plugs, they'd still got the banjo position wrong?

Nice to know that they are human too I suppose.....

[S.A.C. Martin]

Thanks Simon, nice clarification.

I wonder if somebody on Mr Kohler's staff had to explain to the boss why, having gone to so much trouble with details such as the washout plugs, they'd still got the banjo position wrong?

Nice to know that they are human too I suppose.....

What perhaps worries me - they went to all the trouble of making the washout plugs in the correct position for the A4 boiler, but not the position of the banjo dome...?

If they re-release it (the current NRM Scotsman model) after Flying Scotsman has been fitted with the A3 boiler, the banjo dome position will be correct, but the positions of the washout plugs won't be...!

Basically what we have here, on the NRM Scotsman model, my friends - is a non-existant boiler type!

Now THIS is rivet counting of the highest order

[Atlantic 3279]

Now just to complicate this even further....

I looked at a couple of actual Hornby models of the preserved 4472 today, and unlike the pictures of the model posted up above, the dome appaeared to be in the proper diagram 107 "well forward" position!?*!?*

Is the posted picture of your actual model Tom, or is it a website publicty photo? I was confused when selecting a donor loco for my first W1 conversion project, as Hornby's website showed the Railroad garter blue pre-war A4 Falcon with earlier (poorly proportioned) Hornby body moulding but with finescale valve gear, yet on going to the shop to see one it turned out to have the nicer new body and older coarse-scale valve gear! Obviously the website pictures can be pre-production mock-ups but are not necessarily declared as such. Beware!

[S.A.C. Martin]

Now just to complicate this even further....

I looked at a couple of actual Hornby models of the preserved 4472 today, and unlike the pictures of the model posted up above, the dome appaeared to be in the proper diagram 107 "well forward" position!?*!?*

Is the posted picture of your actual model Tom, or is it a website publicty photo? I was confused when selecting a donor loco for my first W1 conversion project, as Hornby's website showed the Railroad garter blue pre-war A4 Falcon with earlier (poorly proportioned) Hornby body moulding but with finescale valve gear, yet on going to the shop to see one it turned out to have the nicer new body and older coarse-scale valve gear! Obviously the website pictures can be pre-production mock-ups but are not necessarily declared as such. Beware!

It seems I've done Hornby a grave disservice! ...looking at my NRM model of Scotsman, found here:



It appears to be the correct combination after all!

It has to be said, I went to check this model after looking at the picture Tom posted. I can confirm its a mockup picture.

And my apologies to Hornby!

[Tom F]

Hmm well the pictures I posted were not the normal hornby Mock up, but from hattons webstite....prototype maybe?

They can be found here, although the Aussie Scotsman is discontinued
http://www.ehattons.com/StockDetail.aspx?sid=22928

[Tom F]

Good Evening all

well, I think it's time to reveal my new modelling project.


Yes that's right, the first real High Speed Train, which celebrates it's 75th Anniversary this year.

But modelling this famous train in 4mm is not so easy

If you wish to buy Hornby's Silver Jubilee Coaches, you will be in for a surprise.....they are nothing like the coaches they are supposed to represent.

The Hornby versions are actually stanier coaches painted to look like the Silver Jubilee Coaches...this possible could be tolerated, but the fact of the matter is, the actually Silver Jubilee Coaches were articulated, 7 carriages made up of 2 twin articulates and a triplet articulated restaurant set with the centre being a kitchen coach. For more information please check out this fantastic website
http://www.elegantsteam.com/silver_jubi ... train.html

So thanks to a member on another modelling forum, he is to supply me with brass etched kits of the coaches, which will be articulated like the real coaches.

This is quite a modelling project, something I have never done before (although my Dad is going to be an important aspect in the building with all painting and lining to be done by yours trully)

But what I do have to show, is the second A4 built by the LNER to haul the Streamlined train, No 2510 'QUICKSILVER'

The loco in question was Hornby's first version of the loco drive superdetail A4, with fixed cartazzi...she really is lovely as these pics will show

My first Silver A4



Second A4 built for the Silver Jubilee 'QUICKSILVER'


painted interior cab


Lovely accurate shading of LNER with light blue shadow


Alongside a photo of her sister

[Alpineman]

Tom

A Silver Jubilee coach set has been lacking in availability since the Mailcoach models ceased production, which always seemed strange to me, bearing in mind that both Hornby and Bachmann produced silver liveried A4s. Silver painted Stanier coaches are no substitute, which has put me off from buying a silver engine, although I have fancied one for variety.

On Sunday, at the Alexandra Palace show, I saw some part finished brass etched models of the Silver Jubilee coach set running on a layout operated by the Hornby live steam system. Are these the models you will be using? If so, they looked quite fine, although incomplete, and lacking windows and livery. Who is making them?

Are you modelling the original 1936 consist, or the 1938 version, with the extra coach?

Alpineman

[Atlantic 3279]

I'm too lazy to look, but forced to wonder how much the Coronation coaches differ. They ARE still available from Mailcoach, as plastc kits which many feel are easier to build than brass, and are at least genuine LNER streamliners.