Bill Bedford's New O4/5 Conversion Arrives

[Atlantic 3279]

I'm sure I'll replace the handrails in metal in the end, I'm just trying to give a fair demonstration of the possibility of keeping the plastic ones.

0.45 or 0.5mm wire will be thicker with paint on of course. If that still seems too thin when I come to actually doing the job, I also have some slightly thicker straight steel piano wire (24swg maybe?) which produces bomb-proof handrails, although it is a bit of a swine to form into nice flowing curves in just the right place. I've done it before though........

Eileen's Emporium show stand appears to sell 0.5, 0.6 and 0.7 brass wire , maybe 0.55 and 0.65 too if I remember correctly, so exact size shouldn't be a problem for those who must have it exact, and I guess they won't mind reaming out the pillars a little if necessary too.

[mick b]

I agree re the handrails, 0.45mm is good enough for me !!

[2002EarlMarischal]

I made further progress with my O4/5 today, giving it a first coat of Halfords grey primer. Later I used the fibreglass brush for the first time, finding it fairly easy to use to remove the rough surface, and although I didn't break the boiler handrails, I managed to break the cab uprights, this time both of them - just through "careful" handling!

It was one of those "sod it" moments, and I decided to cut off the handrails too! As the picture below shows, I have replaced one side. I'm a bit concerned that the handrail knobs I had in stock are too heavy, but they will have to stay now. Perhaps they won't be so obvious when the loco is sprayed black?

I think it's going to be fun (not) trying to fix the upright wire handrails to the cab.

On balance I would have to join the consensus recommending to Bill that he dispenses with the handrails.

I would also personally be willing to fork out a reasonable amount more for a finished surface, holes drilled for handrail knobs, (perhaps even a packet of knobs and handrail wire), and the necessary modifications to ensure a sraight swap. After all, I may have misunderstood but I think the original premise was that the unskilled modeller would need to do little more than unscrew one body and replace it with another.

I hasten to add that none of this is intended to be negative. I'm really pleased to be able to add another loco to my collection, I just think it's about where the model, and the other variants I eagerly await, are intended to sit in the marketplace.

[mick b]

Jim

The knobs look much to big in picture, also are they too short? I doubt if paint will hide them either. I use the Gibson versions personally.

[Atlantic 3279]

I've just checked this and found that the distance from the top of the footplate to the boiler centre line on my model is 17mm against 4' 2.5" from dimensions on the drawings I've used. The height for the Bachmann moulding from the bottom of the saddle to the top of the chimney is 30.75mm against 31.5mm on mine. So it looks as if Bachmann have made their footplate thicker than scale and lowered the boiler/cab to compensate.

I'm not sure what I should do about this -- ideas?

On looking (at last) at the GA drawing of an original O4 that appears in E. Johnson's "Locomotives of the Great Central Railway", volume 2, it appears to me that the following dimensions apply:

Rail to top of running plate platform 4' 3" 5/8 (or 4' 3" 7/8, one figure is indistinct), or 17.25mm (+/-) in 4mm scale. I reckon my Bachmann model measures 17.5mm

To frame top edges, 5' 2" 1/4. My Bachmann model 21mm (+/-)

The Bachmann "underpinnings" errors therefore appear to account for only about 0.25mm. Yet looking at the acrylic print, the boiler is not too fat (23mm approx, which sounds about right based on Doncaster's "thin lagging" practice as mentioned way back in the B12 improvement discussions), the chimney seems to be a fairly accurate scale 1' 4", and I now suspect that there is a risk of making the saddle look too squat if I file it down. I cannot therfore yet work out where the extra total height has come from and how it might be corrected. Perhaps it has to be a case of filing, at most, the merest hint of material from the base of the saddle and turn a blind eye to the remaining unfathomable discrepancy?

I do now understand why only a mild degreasing agent was advised. Maybe I created more contour-levelling work than was absolutely necessary when I waded in with the white spirit! Still, no obvious harm done, and I'm still impressed with Bill's product.

[Coboman]

What base material are these made from? Is it the frosted/ultra detail?

[Atlantic 3279]

I understand that it is the FUD material - I believe it says so somewhere above.


Oddly enough, I've now achieved a chimney height of about 52.5mm which is near enough for me, and I've done it without spoiling the appearance of the saddle in the critical, shallowest area right under the front of the smokebox. Two key points have allowed this:

Firstly, I may be behind the times in discovering this, but I've found that Bachmann's annoying non-period chequer plating between the frame tops below the smokebox door is actually a plastic insert in the cast metal. It is EASY to scrape / shave the pattern off it, to leave a flush, BLACK surface, and with care you can do it without damaging anything around the plating. Doing this slightly lowers the surface between the frame tops.

Secondly, the lip all round the base of the acrylic saddle can be filed down in such a way as to take advantage of the lower surface between the frames. At the sides and rear of the saddle I've filed this lip off completely, but across the front of the saddle, between the frames, I've only halved the depth of the lip. Net result is that the saddle now sits down more fully onto and into the frames but it still appears "full height" across the front.

In combination with these alterations I've been able to file a little more from the bottom edges of the firebox, and slightly round-off the bottom egdes of the screw-bosses in the bottom corners of the cab. The cab sidesheets now go down absolutely flush onto the running plate without any strain. Oh, erm, yes, and I've now fitted metal handrails all-round too. I'd got fed up of finding that the acrylic ones were bent again, either due to handling, or just due to temperature changes (and the actions of the fairies overnight?)

I'll post progress pictures tomorrow if I can.

[Coboman]

Haha! I wondered how long before you'd abandon the handrails Graeme, but well done for trying to persevere with them though. Just to delicate in this medium?

[Atlantic 3279]

I've been asked about a source for the tiny screws that I've used. They came to me as a gift from an acquaintance, but they were said to be sourced from the dolls' house building hobby - but note the reference to scales Z and N! Here's the pack and the label. The inner plastic box containingh the screws is 2 x 2cm.
Obviously German. I've no idea whether the firm of "Peter Post" still exists and still supplies these. I'd like some more if they do!

[Atlantic 3279]

Well fancy that! I couldn't find this when I last looked, but:

http://www.peter-post-werkzeuge.de/0000 ... /index.php

http://translate.google.co.uk/translate ... md%3Dimvns

Mid-way down the page.

[wehf100]

Well fancy that! I couldn't find this when I last looked, but:

http://www.peter-post-werkzeuge.de/0000 ... /index.php

Mid-way down the page.

I've had good dealings with these guys.

http://www.modellingtimbers.co.uk/24.html

Will

[Atlantic 3279]

Spot on Will! I won't be at any risk of having to severely test my little remaining knowledge of German if I order from them. I am in your debt. Although it appears that you only get ten screws for your fifty shillings, as opposed to 100 for seven Euro-funny-moneys from Peter Post. Hmmmmmmm......

Some shots of the O4/5 as currently waiting for further attention. I haven't replaced the smokebox fastening in metal yet. I may well do that too, but I have temporarily stuck the handle back on behind the hand-wheel. I went for 0.5mm nickel silver for the handrails as it is easy to form into the generous, flowing Gorton curve at the front of the smokebox.

I wasn't entirely keen on the idea of drilling the projecting stubs of beading above and below the cabside cut-out and securing the upright metal handrails only into those, but I was even less keen on the appearance that other solutions to the problem might produce. I think the arrangement will be acceptably robust (for careful handling at least) because the bottom end of each rail, when the loco is fully assembled, is braced in the hole on the metal running plate - although I've had to bend the very bottom bit in slightly to line it up with the hole. I'd better not bust the rails off the mountings whilst I'm still handling the separate superstructure........
I've also trimmed away the ends of the midddle and rear roof ribs and added a rainstrip. The very ends of the front rib have been rounded-down to give the top front corvers of the cab more of a radius as seen from the front. I see that as another Gorton signature.

[Atlantic 3279]

Here's the slight chamfering / rounding of the bottom edges of the screw-bosses in the front corners of the cab:

Front of smokebox with saddle below. I hope you can just see that I've left more depth across most of the front of the saddle than I have at it front corners, which are filed back to a slighly higher level as per the sides and rear of the saddle. That "plastic chequer plated" top surface between the frames has had all of its pips scraped and shaved off as mentioned above.

Beneath the saddle, where I've taken off the edge lip completely at the sides and rear, but left some of it at the front.

[mick b]

Excellent tutorial.
I still think the Smokebox Door Handle looks weird/wrong. Looks much better with the wire replacements handrails.

[Atlantic 3279]

One piece of staple, re-bent. One small triangle of Plastikard. One stub of 0.5mm wire. One shoulderless handrail knob. One Brassmasters 3mm nickel silver handwheel. Better?

The acrylic handwheel was 4.5mm dia, 30 to 50% too large according to my scaling from photos, and the handle behind it wasn't long enough.