Project 65033 - a 3D printed LNER J21

[NZRedBaron]

Actually, can I ask something, Paul?

Have you modelled the smokebox door with or without the BR-era numberplate? It's just something I wanted to check on before I jump into making any purchases.

[Paul_sterling]

Hi,

It's modelled without, the idea being that it's good for LNER locos, but BR modellers can ad an etched plate like that from narrow planet

Thanks. Paul

[NZRedBaron]

That's all I needed to know. Now I just need to choose which engine to number it as (leaning towards #26, as that was one of a group that was temporarily assigned to ex-GER metals in the mid-30's).

[Paul_sterling]

Nice one. I always enjoy watching what others can do with the shells. NZPaul was one of the first with the Q1.

Thanks. Paul

[NZRedBaron]

So, how do we arrange buying those body shells?

[Paul_sterling]

Hi,

Just send me a private message on here, and I can exchange Paypal details. Using goods and services on PayPal is as good as anything in terms of buyer/seller protection.

Thanks, Paul.

[Paul_sterling]

One of the things I've been on with deciding is the permutations of J21 variants to offer.

The administration and maintenance of multiple variations is a headache, and impractical in terms of producing the individual variant, saving as STL, then going through each permutation, creating supports, and slicing each one. If I could save the support structure as its own STL, I would, but I can't with my current CAD.

So with this in mind, I've settled on three permutations which I have ready to go.


1- 65033 as preserved

2- J21, Dia67 / 67B Superheated, long smokebox and Gresley snifting valve. EDITED now 67/ 67B not 67A

3- J21, Dia67/67B un-superheated, with Piston Valves (valve covers exposed)


The last permutation I will offer is as follows, but yet to be produced on CAD.

4- J21 Dia 67 un-superheated, slide valves, boiler side feed.

I am deliberately including the NE Lubricator and Westinghouse pump on all variants, this is because a lot of the class had them in many of the combinations, and its far easier for a customer to remove them should their chosen example not feature them, than it is for me to effectively triple the number of platforms to maintain. I am deliberately limiting the number of shells produced of options 2, 3 and 4 to ten each only.

Thanks, Paul.

[NZRedBaron]

So, which one of each is which?

That is to say, what periods would each model be most appropriate for?

[Paul_sterling]

EDITED

The superheated example is for post 1914 to withdrawal

The piston valve example is 1923 onwards,

The dia 67 slide valve is for post rebuild as simple expansion, turn of the century, but I believe it would also cover the earlier compounds, as I gather there was little differentiation between simple and compound externally (perhaps beyond valve arrangements under the boiler gap).

The only thing that was done to all of the J21's as far as I am aware, was the compound to simple conversion, otherwise there was a significant degree of mixes and matches.

The last one 65033, is post 1965, its preserved condition, where its a bit of a unique engine, it has a superheated 67A boiler with the elements removed (which doesn't make it the same as the 67), has no boiler side feed, and a short smoke box, a plate non-sandwich bufferbeam, but has tapered buffers as fitted to the sandwich locos, so you'll see a small packing piece behind the tapered shanks. In short, she's a bit of a mongrel, but one I'm very grateful got preserved. My guess is they cannibalised 65099 to save her, and 65099 was an "opposite" to 65033.

Hope that helps.
Paul.

[Danby Wiske]

The superheated example is for post 1914 to withdrawal

Not quite true - the 67A boiler (with the dome further back than on earlier boilers) only appeared in the late 1930s, and I seem to remember wasn't used on a J21 until the early '40s. I'm away from home at the moment, so can't check the exact dates...

[Paul_sterling]

From RCTS

"original" superheated boilers were known as Dia 67 from 1929, but had been introduced in 1914

"Original" saturated boilers were also classified as Dia67, from 1928

Dia 70 was only three engines, using D22 boilers at 4'5" rather than 4'3" dia. Not considered in the scope of this project.

Dia 67B introduced 1936/7 a single piece barrel rather than three, slightly thicker too. four examples used on J21, and fifth on J25. Safety valves moved back slightly. As built, the Dia 67B was an all-superheated boiler.

Dia 67A introduced No. 1938, this had the most obvious visual change of the dome being moved back 1'9. It also had wider spaced boiler bands, whereas 67, 67B and 70 were externally identical barring their independent use of side feeds and safety valve outlets, and in the case of 70, barrel dia.

The LNER introduced boilers had 6' long fireboxes, rather than 5'10" NER length fireboxes.

So usage dates for those offered

1- 65033 as preserved
1966 onwards, but could be used for examples of a de-superheated Dia 67A, of which a number of examples were done, and would be appropriate for 1938 onwards.

2- J21, Dia67A Superheated, long smokebox and Gresley snifting valve.
Its dome position, and boiler band positions denote this is suitable for 1938 onwards.

3- J21, Dia67/67B un-superheated, with Piston Valves (valve covers exposed)
As these are externally identical to the original design (barring safety valve bonnet, which I've not put on anyway), Piston Valve rebuilds began in 1905, so this variant can cover from then, but some may wish to add a side feed for earlier examples.


The last permutation I will offer is as follows, but yet to be produced on CAD.

4- J21 Dia 67 un-superheated, slide valves, boiler side feed.
Calling this Dia 67 is a misnomer based on the RCTS info, but in reality, visually its correct for an earlier version. An assumption on my part is that, externally the compound engines looked the same as the simple engines externally. if not, this variant covers from 1893 onwards when the simples were introduced.


In terms of numbers, there was fewer than 31% of the class superheated at any one time, with 109 piston valved engines. Because of the longer smokebox, the major visual difference between Piston Valve and Slide valve is hidden on superheated engines, so with this in mind, Option 2 is going to be changed to Dia 67/67B, with the safety valve bonnet omitted to allow purchasers to make either version.

Paul.

[Daddyman]

Hello Paul,
This looks very impressive.

A question if I may: I can't see any mention of different smokebox doors; which have you modelled? - later LNER dished with no rim, or early NER flat with rim? The preserved 65033 has the former.
Thanks,
David.

[Paul_sterling]

Hi David, Thank you.

I've used the same door for all of them, 65033, LNER style, with no rim. I can't find a definitive reference as to when this change took place, beyond presumably post 1923.

By the looks of it, the LNER Door is bigger diameter on its dish, its overall dia being comparable to the NER outer dia of the rim disc.

As the rest of the surface the door sits on is flat, it'll be feasible for modellers to remove the printed door and fit something else if preferred, but I don't wish to add extra proliferation.

Paul.

[Daddyman]

Thanks, Paul.

March 1945 was the changeover date for doors on the D20s, so possibly something comparable for the J21.

I think you've made the right choice going for the later door, as the earlier one is readily available from kit suppliers.

[Paul_sterling]

Thanks, Paul.

March 1945 was the changeover date for doors on the D20s, so possibly something comparable for the J21.

I think you've made the right choice going for the later door, as the earlier one is readily available from kit suppliers.

Thanks David.

Earliest pic I've seen that's dated and definitely LNER door fitted is 1947 on a J21.

I'll never get whats on offer 100% for every permutation, so as you say, people may have to do a little kit bashing to model to exactly what they suit, I'm just giving them a basic platform on which to work from.

Thanks, Paul.