Hornby LNER Pacifics Discussion

[Nova]

I feel like you have largely missed the point of the question.

I'm only 20, very soon to be 21, with nowhere near the skill level other users on this forum have, for that matter my total number of usable LNER locos comes to 1, and that's just an N2. The most I feel confident with my current skill level in doing is fitting a double chimney (if the single is removable) and smoke deflectors. I don't feel confident that I can totally disassemble the bodyshell from a model that currently sells brand new for £160 with the promise that it will look better than when it was fresh out the box.

What I need is a hornby A3 that, mould/assembly issues aside, represents an A3 in it's final condition. I'm not fussed over whether the running board is totally straight or if the boiler is a perfect fit.

the point is will people look at the finished post-war LNER green livery model regardless of defects and go "that's a BR A3 in apple green"?

furthermore, can the models I linked above be modified with the above stated fitting of double chimney and smoke deflectors, to represent an A3 in its final form?

that was what I originally asked. not whether the bodyshell is perfectly moulded.

[65447]

Back to generalities for the moment, and merely to mention that the February 2017 issue (116) of Hornby Magazine, in addition to introducing the Hornby and Bachmann new models for 2017, has general articles by (1) Evan Green-Hughes on development of the Pacific locomotive type and (2) on modelling Pacific-hauled trains with a goodly range of sample train formations; not all LNER-based of course.

[Dave S]

I'm only 20, very soon to be 21

What I need is a hornby A3 that, mould/assembly issues aside, represents an A3 in it's final condition. I'm not fussed over whether the running board is totally straight or if the boiler is a perfect fit.

Oh to be 20 again....

The only comment I'd make is that I used to think a similar way, but when I realised that the better way for me was to aim for the most accurate that's when I started getting the most satisfation from my modelling. I still accept compromises and quote the 3' rule often but if you aim for the most accurate your knowledge base will also increase. And from a kit design point of view this is essential.

[Nova]

but when I realised that the better way for me was to aim for the most accurate that's when I started getting the most satisfation from my modelling.

and fair play to you for deciding/discovering this. Everyone has their own way of gaining the most satisfaction from the hobby, for some it's hand-building beautiful track work, for others it's building kits or repainting models, some get satisfaction simply from taking a brand new model out the box and letting it join its comrades on the layout. I have one good friend who prefers to shunt wagons in a yard rather than "run trains" round and round.

my satisfaction comes from attempting to create a believable or plausible vision of an unnationalised LNER in the 50s/60s, however, as stated before my current skill level precludes me from achieving the modifications that come easily to others. In time I will do the same modifications that others have performed but until then I'll be happy to run a couple of A3s with warped running boards rather than no A3s at all. it's less so a lack of wanting to improve them and more not feeling confident enough to do it at this moment in time.

And from a kit design point of view this is essential.

hence why I have made the effort to ask this form for advice a number of times rather than go it alone and make a kit that is inaccurate. as I've stated before I will be using every resource available to me, including going out on location and studying the real thing where possible, to ensure that each model I produce is as accurate as I can make it.

[Dave S]

And from a kit design point of view this is essential.

hence why I have made the effort to ask this form for advice a number of times rather than go it alone and make a kit that is inaccurate. as I've stated before I will be using every resource available to me, including going out on location and studying the real thing where possible, to ensure that each model I produce is as accurate as I can make it.

Going off topic here but building up the skills to model is only practice, if you attend exhibitions or a model shop (if you've got one) they will have a box of bits of old crud for pennies that you could hack about without fear of ruining, if you get it wrong, so what.
You don't have to be the best kit builder to be able to design a kit but you've got to have a bit of basic knowledge of kit building to be able to design one. Being able to look at a 2D drawing and convert that to a 3D image in your head and also into constituent parts, will make the process so much easier and more accurate and if your own modelling aims at accuracy then others have more confidence in you and your product.

Resouces - Just a note on this, I've played a very small part in the 3D design/print of some early GN locomotives, mainly research and critique and the only material you can rely on is the original source, and then don't believe everything you see as what the GA may show is not how it might have been built. Research of the prototype is the key and it will mean hundreds of hours per loco using drawings and photographs from original sources such as NRM/Kew, there were 5 of us, of which 2 are very skilled CAD designers and another with experience of etched kit design and each loco took hundreds of hours.
I'd be very wary of just using what is running today as examples, as so much has been changed in preservation days for ease of maintenance etc.

I would pick one wagon to design that you want yourself and make up a CAD and see how you get on.

[Nova]

so back to my original question. Can the models I linked a few posts back be made to represent an A3 in its final condition with the addition of smoke deflectors and a double chimney?

a simple "yes" or "no, because [historical detail difference]" is all I need.

[Nova]

Going off topic here but building up the skills to model is only practice, if you attend exhibitions or a model shop (if you've got one) they will have a box of bits of old crud for pennies that you could hack about without fear of ruining, if you get it wrong, so what.

I'll be the first to admit that

You don't have to be the best kit builder to be able to design a kit but you've got to have a bit of basic knowledge of kit building to be able to design one. Being able to look at a 2D drawing and convert that to a 3D image in your head and also into constituent parts, will make the process so much easier and more accurate and if your own modelling aims at accuracy then others have more confidence in you and your product.

I do have experience with kits. I just haven't been able to do any recently because I have no layout and no way to store them at the moment.

Resouces - Just a note on this, I've played a very small part in the 3D design/print of some early GN locomotives, mainly research and critique and the only material you can rely on is the original source, and then don't believe everything you see as what the GA may show is not how it might have been built. Research of the prototype is the key and it will mean hundreds of hours per loco using drawings and photographs from original sources such as NRM/Kew, there were 5 of us, of which 2 are very skilled CAD designers and another with experience of etched kit design and each loco took hundreds of hours.
.

Ironically I'll be taking a similar role to you. the job of producing the 3D model will be falling to a friend of mine, whilst I handle research.

I'd be very wary of just using what is running today as examples, as so much has been changed in preservation days for ease of maintenance etc

a lot of the research that requires examining the real thing is to study brake rigging or interior in the case of brake vans* and to get close up reference photographs of details which are apparent on drawings or photos, but not totally clear.

I would pick one wagon to design that you want yourself and make up a CAD and see how you get on.

I will at some point, most likely the D197 bolster as it's a reasonably simple design.


* as I've stated before these will also be produced for simulators, some of which have interior views allowing you to "ride" in the brake van

[Dave S]

so back to my original question. Can the models I linked a few posts back be made to represent an A3 in its final condition with the addition of smoke deflectors and a double chimney?

a simple "yes" or "no, because [historical detail difference]" is all I need.

I can't answer that question.........but

Ironically I'll be taking a similar role to you. the job of producing the 3D model will be falling to a friend of mine, whilst I handle research.

there is your first bit of research. Study some decent pics of what you'd lke and see which model is the closest, It's a start.

[Sea Eagle]

so back to my original question. Can the models I linked a few posts back be made to represent an A3 in its final condition with the addition of smoke deflectors and a double chimney?

a simple "yes" or "no, because [historical detail difference]" is all I need.

Ladas and Minoru - yes. I don't think many A3s ran with double chimney and round dome, but Firdaussi was definitely one.

Book Law - no. Wrong cab, and some detail differences at front end.

At risk of repeating myself though if you want final condition, double chimney A3s in post war LNER apple green the easiest options for conversion are the NRM Flying Scotsman models. No need for the potentially costly respray and already have the double chimney and smoke deflectors. Tender is wrong for BR, but in your alternative LNER reality...

[Nova]

I can't answer that question.........but.

why not? it's a simple question, from my viewpoint everyone just seems to be getting caught up on the warped running board and not giving me a straight answer, which is starting to make me feel like I'm going in circles.


can the model i've displayed be converted to the A3's post-1958 appearance with the fitting of a double chimney and smoke deflectors?

[Sea Eagle]

I can't answer that question.........but.

why not? it's a simple question, from my viewpoint everyone just seems to be getting caught up on the warped running board and not giving me a straight answer, which is starting to make me feel like I'm going in circles.


can the model i've displayed be converted to the A3's post-1958 appearance with the fitting of a double chimney and smoke deflectors?

Yes!

[Nova]

first off, thank you for a to-the point reply, this was the sort of response I've been looking for

Ladas and Minoru - yes. I don't think many A3s ran with double chimney and round dome, but Firdaussi was definitely one.

looks like I'll be doing Firdaussi to add some variety

At risk of repeating myself though if you want final condition, double chimney A3s in post war LNER apple green the easiest options for conversion are the NRM Flying Scotsman models. No need for the potentially costly respray and already have the double chimney and smoke deflectors. Tender is wrong for BR, but in your alternative LNER reality...

i imagine that the A3s would have developed under the LNER as with BR, so BR one would be better detail-wise. I can stand to run it at the club in BR until I can find someone to repaint it at a decent standard.

I may make a post asking about anyone that offers their services once I have an A3.

[Nova]

Yes!

i hadn't seen your other response when I posted that

[Nova]

the matter of suitable pacifics for conversion is resolved now, so it can be dropped and forgotten as far as I'm concerned.

apologies to all for any disruption caused by myself.

[Sea Eagle]

first off, thank you for a to-the point reply, this was the sort of response I've been looking for

Ladas and Minoru - yes. I don't think many A3s ran with double chimney and round dome, but Firdaussi was definitely one.

looks like I'll be doing Firdaussi to add some variety

At risk of repeating myself though if you want final condition, double chimney A3s in post war LNER apple green the easiest options for conversion are the NRM Flying Scotsman models. No need for the potentially costly respray and already have the double chimney and smoke deflectors. Tender is wrong for BR, but in your alternative LNER reality...

i imagine that the A3s would have developed under the LNER as with BR, so BR one would be better detail-wise. I can stand to run it at the club in BR until I can find someone to repaint it at a decent standard.

I may make a post asking about anyone that offers their services once I have an A3.

The point about the NRM Scotsman is that it IS effectively a final condition A3 in apple green. It even has a speedo cable and AWS. Remember this is a model of a preserved loco, which has deliberately been restored to its most highly developed form. There really is no easier way to achieve the result I think you want