Hornby LNER Pacifics Discussion

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S.A.C. Martin

Re: Hornby LNER Pacifics Discussion

Post by S.A.C. Martin »

Saint Johnstoun wrote:The chimney on 4472 looks like an original tall one! Should it not be the later type to composite loading gauge?
Unbelievably - I know - this is actually an accurate choice of parts for 4472! I had to see it to believe it though - there's a photograph in one of my books which shows this combination, and on the website below:

Image

Mike's Rail History

Shortened cab, tall chimney, large cut outs in cab and 180b boiler with right hand drive. It is accurate for - drum roll please - approx 5 months of the locomotive's life somewhere in 1927-28 until she was fitted with the shorter chimney.

Here's a decent comparison from the NRM website to show the difference in the chimney better:

Image

I guess Hornby chose that combination for their Railroad model as it's somewhere between the GNR spec with the taller chimney and the GNR tender, and the most well known version with LNER loading gauge modifications and the corridor tender being fitted. This way it doesn't potentially harm sales of their super detail A1s or A3s.

Simon Kohler did say in an email to me regarding this model that the spec was chosen to not divert sales away from the main range. I guess that's one of the hazards of RTR.

I've just spotted I'm missing a detail on the LHS side of the loco. D'oh!
Sea Eagle
LNER N2 0-6-2T
Posts: 65
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:05 pm

Re: Hornby LNER Pacifics Discussion

Post by Sea Eagle »

It looks as though "Book Law" might finally be on its way :D . The Hornby website is now showing the estimated arrival date as 7th July. This has changed so many times that I've lost count, but what gives grounds for more hope this time is that what looks the finalized sleeve for the box is being shown:

http://www.hornby.com/uk-en/lner-4-6-2- ... class.html

It's showing the ashpan lever (and presumably the reversing lever) on the wrong side of the loco, but hopefully this will be correct on the actual model. If not it's easily corrected. The cab is still the earlier variety with the deep cutouts. It'll be interesting to see whether Hornby has modified the tooling for the front end of the A3 to include the earlier version of the access hatch for the middle cylinder. To my knowledge only the A1s have had this feature so far - and as the smokebox is part of the same moulding as the running plate the existing A1 tooling won't work for the 94HP boiler. I'm personally hoping that they've continued to use the existing A3 tooling as the locos I've ordered are destined to become post war A3s with the later hatches.

I'm very much hoping that the spare cabs and bucket seats which have been gathering dust for a long time now will finally be put to their intended use in the very near future!
mick b
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
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Re: Hornby LNER Pacifics Discussion

Post by mick b »

Looks like a mock up , huge gap between motion bracket and footplate. It is so far out that I first thought it was in forward gear :shock: .

Its a big shame you cant buy the Tender separate.
Sea Eagle
LNER N2 0-6-2T
Posts: 65
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:05 pm

Re: Hornby LNER Pacifics Discussion

Post by Sea Eagle »

Its a big shame you cant buy the Tender separate.[/quote]

Yes - the tender would be very useful, and if ever any do come up on the auction site they're bound to be at crazy prices. By sheer luck I managed to pick up a Flying Fox body and complete GNR tender a few of years ago from local retailer for a very reasonable price. The cab and tender body are going to be mated with a Book Law to create a model of Hyperion circa 1948. That will also free up a lovely new apple green NT tender for another project :)
Cullercoats

Re: Hornby LNER Pacifics Discussion

Post by Cullercoats »

I have bought a Hornby A3 Book Law this morning at a very acceptable discount, it should be running on the test rollers tomorrow morning. :P
Sea Eagle
LNER N2 0-6-2T
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Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:05 pm

Re: Hornby LNER Pacifics Discussion

Post by Sea Eagle »

Book Law photos are now on the Website of well known Sheffield retailer. Ash pan lever is on the wrong side, but otherwise looks good. Middle cylinder access hatch looks correct for period as does "smooth" smoke box door. Not sure about prominent rivets on firebox. Tender has discs rather than spokes which will not be correct for all NT fitted A3s.
Sea Eagle
LNER N2 0-6-2T
Posts: 65
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:05 pm

Re: Hornby LNER Pacifics Discussion

Post by Sea Eagle »

I know this thread is quite old now, but I've been meaning for some time to post some photos of my small collection of Hornby A10s/A3s. This is mainly by way of recognition to the two men whose finishing skills made up for my own modelling deficiencies and allowed me to create these models - namely Mick B of this parish and Steve of Grimy Times Weathering. My aim was to create a fleet of locos as running for a few short months over the summer of 1948, reflecting the variety of livery styles in evidence at that time. I resolved to capture different variations of livery, boiler and tender on each model with no duplications. All of the models are based on period photographs of the prototypes, and are as accurate as I could make them (with the considerable help of Mick and/or Steve), and they represent prototypes from both ends of the ECML. The start point was a small job lot of USA edition Flying Scotsman bodies and Flying Fox chassis and tenders. These were supplemented by some Book Laws, which unfortunately ended up requiring more work to straighten them out and get them looking half decent. Cabs, buffer beams and bucket seats where necessary were taken from Flying Fox or wrecked NRM Scotsman bodies, along with spare lamp irons, cab doors, steps and wind deflectors. All plates are by Fox, and decals are a mix of Fox, HMRS Pressfix and Cambridge Custom Transfers. Chris Parrish of Perseverance Products supplied etchings for the post war middle cylinder inspection hatches which were required for a number of the models.
Felstead 2.jpg
89 Felstead of King's Cross was the first of the production A3s and the first of my conversions from a USA edition Scotsman. It was also the loco which had gone the longest between general overhauls by the summer of 1948 hence the particularly grimy finish by Steve. Diag 94A boiler and GNR type tender. Shaded characters
Hyperion 2.jpg
37 Hyperion of Haymarket was the first of my Book Law conversions. It has the least bendy running plate, and in replacing the cab I made great efforts to make it even less so, but still asked Steve to provide a heavy weathering to soften the footplate lining which tends to exaggerate the distortions. Apologies if I've done a disservice to the cleaners of Haymarket shed - even in the depths of the immediate post war period! Diag 94HP boiler and GNR tender. Plain gill sans characters
Fairway 2.jpg
Heaton shed's 92 Fairway is another USA Scotsman conversion, but this time with plain gill sans characters and an NT tender. The prototype was one of the last to receive it's BR number. Renamed, renumbered and weathered by Steve at the same time as Hyperion, and with a similar finish.
Humorist 2.jpg
The A3 guinea pig Humorist is based on a rather battered return to steam edition of the NRM Flying Scotsman. Mick B added the smoke deflectors and replaced the double chimney with a Graeme King resin unlipped variety. He also (invisibly) repaired some damage to the running plate at the cab end. Humorist presented another problem as by the summer of 1948 it had been renumbered but with non-standard characters. BR finally settled on 10" Gills Sans for both locos and tenders around late July / early August, but Humorist was renumbered in June. After considering a combination of Modelmaster LNER 12" for the cabsides and Fox BR cream 8" for the tender, I agreed with Mick's suggestion of differently sized HMRS Pressfix for both. Strictly speaking the cab numbers should include "curly" sixes and nines, but I think the resulting model looks right and am happy to exercise modellers licence. In deference to Mick's preference for apple green express passenger locos, I agreed to a pristine satin finish.

Four more locos to follow.
Sea Eagle
LNER N2 0-6-2T
Posts: 65
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:05 pm

Re: Hornby LNER Pacifics Discussion

Post by Sea Eagle »

Part 2!
Grand Parade 2.jpg
90 Grand Parade was a New England locomotive, and another which kept its LNER number into 1949. It is an oddity in my collection in that it was converted from a return to steam edition NRM Scotsman that I picked up cheaply on the auction site. The previous owner had made a less than perfect job of replacing the double chimney, but had successfully extended the handrails at the smokebox end. Mick B replaced the chimney (again) and did a fabulous job with it! Once again Mick finished the model in pristine satin. 94A boiler, GNR tender and unshaded characters.
Spion Kop 2.jpg
King's Cross number 98 Spion Kop was probably (according to my research) the last A3 to receive shaded characters when it emerged from a general overhaul on 1st March 1947. It took a while to confirm that the colour was apple green as in the only photo I had the loco was so filthy that the livery was almost indiscernible. Evidence suggested that Doncaster were well into their programme of turning out these locos in green by then, and eventually I found a clearer photo of number 98 which confirmed it. Diag 94HP boiler and NT tender - a Book Law conversion with new cab, bucket seats, disc wheels on the tender and middle cylinder cover / inspection hatch. The identity change was carried out by Mick, and the loco was originally pristine, but it just didn't match those photos, so it was off to Steve for a coat of grime. Sorry Mick!
Cicero 2.jpg
Number 60101 Cicero of Haymarket is also a straightforward Book Law conversion, but as she was renumbered in August 1948 she has standard BR 10" characters - albeit with curly 6s. Light weathering by Steve as befits a locomotive not long out of the Works.
Sir Visto 2.jpg
68 Sir Visto is the odd one out. The last remaining 180lb pacific by the summer of 1948 and classified A10. She was based at Carlisle Canal Street, but is likely to have bumped into her sisters at Haymarket. Sir Visto started life as a Gladiateur from a Hornby train pack, but she has acquired a resprayed and lined out streamlined non corridor tender from an A4. I think I got hold of the distinctive NBL works plates from ModelMaster. Weathered finish by Steve.
Last edited by Sea Eagle on Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
Nova
GER D14 4-4-0 'Claud Hamilton'
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Re: Hornby LNER Pacifics Discussion

Post by Nova »

this has probably already been discussed but what model would one buy that would take the least effort to represent the final form of the A3s?

as with all other things I do it'll be going in LNER, but the point still stands.
Coalby and Marblethorpe, my vision of an un-nationalised Great Britain in the 50s and 60s: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11905


36C Studeos, kits in 4MM scale: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11947
Sea Eagle
LNER N2 0-6-2T
Posts: 65
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Re: Hornby LNER Pacifics Discussion

Post by Sea Eagle »

A selection of front ends. The finer buffer beam class designation and shed decals are by CCT. The overscale ones are by Fox. Note that the etched Perseverance middle cylinder covers on 60101 and 68 are virtually indistinguishable from the Hornby mouldings on 60097 and 89. 89 has a replacement buffer beam and the hole left after the removal of the US bell has been filled and made good.
Humorist.jpg
Sir Visto.jpg
Cicero.jpg
Felstead.jpg
Sea Eagle
LNER N2 0-6-2T
Posts: 65
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:05 pm

Re: Hornby LNER Pacifics Discussion

Post by Sea Eagle »

Nova wrote:this has probably already been discussed but what model would one buy that would take the least effort to represent the final form of the A3s?

as with all other things I do it'll be going in LNER, but the point still stands.
If it needs to be Apple Green I would probably recommend the USA Tour Edition Flying Scotsman set. They've become horribly expensive on the auction site, but you can sell on the spare tender and observation car for a good price. I managed to source replacement buffer beams for mine, but it is quite possible to cut down the cowcatcher version fitted to this model. Book Law works for a 94HP boilered (round dome) A3. Thompson had a small stock of these built new in the 1940s, and they definitely lasted into your "what if" era, but you would need to change the cab to the later type with high cutouts, and might also want to add the post war middle cylinder covers (see my posts above). Many of these models have badly distorted running plates though - the consensus seems to be that the tooling is shot. The recently announced Gay Crusader which is due out at the end of this year probably wouldn't work as it is right hand drive, and based on the logic of your previous posts I'm guessing that your version of the LNER would have got around to converting all the A3s to LHD by the early 50s - just like BR. Of course following the logic that the LNER would have followed the same practice as BR had it continued to exist, you could always go for the NRM Flying Scotsman models. If we assume that Peter Townend had still been in charge at King's Cross it's highly likely that he would have made the same decisions to fit double Kylchap chimneys and German style smoke deflectors. And following the same logic you could run both the earlier NRM models with diag 107 A4 type boiler and the return to steam version with the diag 94A boiler.
Nova
GER D14 4-4-0 'Claud Hamilton'
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Re: Hornby LNER Pacifics Discussion

Post by Nova »

Sea Eagle wrote:If it needs to be Apple Green I would probably recommend the USA Tour Edition Flying Scotsman set. They've become horribly expensive on the auction site, but you can sell on the spare tender and observation car for a good price. I managed to source replacement buffer beams for mine, but it is quite possible to cut down the cowcatcher version fitted to this model. Book Law works for a 94HP boilered (round dome) A3. Thompson had a small stock of these built new in the 1940s, and they definitely lasted into your "what if" era, but you would need to change the cab to the later type with high cutouts, and might also want to add the post war middle cylinder covers (see my posts above). Many of these models have badly distorted running plates though - the consensus seems to be that the tooling is shot. The recently announced Gay Crusader which is due out at the end of this year probably wouldn't work as it is right hand drive, and based on the logic of your previous posts I'm guessing that your version of the LNER would have got around to converting all the A3s to LHD by the early 50s - just like BR. Of course following the logic that the LNER would have followed the same practice as BR had it continued to exist, you could always go for the NRM Flying Scotsman models. If we assume that Peter Townend had still been in charge at King's Cross it's highly likely that he would have made the same decisions to fit double Kylchap chimneys and German style smoke deflectors. And following the same logic you could run both the earlier NRM models with diag 107 A4 type boiler and the return to steam version with the diag 94A boiler.
They'll carry the LNER post war numbers and livery, so whatever livery I buy them in models will be professionally repainted anyway, I don't trust myself repainting such fine models. at this moment in time I'm not picky enough to let myself be bothered by some warped running boards, the real thing would never have been perfect anyway. plus my current total of A3s comes to zero so I'm a little desperate.

would the following be suitable for fitting a double chimney and smoke deflectors and then repainting and calling them done as an A3:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HORNBY-OO-R33 ... 2787689241

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HORNBY-R3132- ... SwuzRXd5z7

[url]http://www.ebay.cI%20o.uk/itm/NEW-HORNBY-R2617-CLASS-A3-LOCO-60067-LADAS-BR-GREEN-BOXED-/112270187142?hash=item1a23d31a86:g:lt0AAOSwImRYaWp-[/url]
Coalby and Marblethorpe, my vision of an un-nationalised Great Britain in the 50s and 60s: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11905


36C Studeos, kits in 4MM scale: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11947
Nova
GER D14 4-4-0 'Claud Hamilton'
Posts: 371
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Re: Hornby LNER Pacifics Discussion

Post by Nova »

Sea Eagle wrote:I know this thread is quite old now, but I've been meaning for some time to post some photos of my small collection of Hornby A10s/A3s. This is mainly by way of recognition to the two men whose finishing skills made up for my own modelling deficiencies and allowed me to create these models - namely Mick B of this parish and Steve of Grimy Times Weathering.
do GT do full re-paints into new liveries. I've been looking around online and I can't seem to find someone who'll definitely do full resprays on steam locomotives
Coalby and Marblethorpe, my vision of an un-nationalised Great Britain in the 50s and 60s: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11905


36C Studeos, kits in 4MM scale: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11947
Sea Eagle
LNER N2 0-6-2T
Posts: 65
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:05 pm

Re: Hornby LNER Pacifics Discussion

Post by Sea Eagle »

Nova wrote: do GT do full re-paints into new liveries. I've been looking around online and I can't seem to find someone who'll definitely do full resprays on steam locomotives
If I were you I'd go for the NRM edition Flying Scotsman. Plenty of them on the auction site. Already lined apple green. Already double chimney and smoke deflectors, choice of boilers. Would just need new names and numbers.
mick b
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
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Re: Hornby LNER Pacifics Discussion

Post by mick b »

Hornby have done a large number of BR A3's just search on ebay look for Sandwich, Ladas, Flying Fox plus lots more. Various Boilers , Tenders etc.

I wouldn't use a NRM Scotsman for a BR Loco as you will pay a lot of money for a respray when Hornby have already done them for you in BR livery .

Book Law is simply dreadful ,poor fit to Firebox and top Boiler seam, as well as the Ski ramp nose.

After a lot of work this is a much better Book Law.

This one has a repainted and relined Boiler. New numbers/letters on Cab and Tender which are now straight and inline. Firebox modified so it fitted the Footplate and the Front end actually broken under the Boiler and reglued and wedged straight. I have confirmed the Boiler is a new moulding fitted to, it would appear the original Footplate moulding and they simply do not match up properly. The latest Shiny (yuk) Green Woolwinder and Firdaussi efforts are juts as bad if not worse. Look at the Rails of Sheffield photos for examples. Etched name and works plates fitted. Front of Tender painted Black and lined out as Hornby left in Green !!
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