Hornby Railroad D49

[Coronach]

I think I'll replace the Cylinders anyway, so I'd probably lose the slidebars in any case.

Dave.

[Daddyman]

Was just typing this as the last post came in:

No, that sounds right, Coboman - there's something stopping the slide bars coming out, but it doesn't hold them firmly in place. They waggle around if the motion support screw on top of the chassis is removed. No reason to suppose Hornby have changed anything in this area: the valve gear looks genuine 1980s!
I'd say it would be necessary to replace the cylinders with Comet ones at the same time as the valve gear. But unless you already have a Shire body there's a heck of a lot of hacking around to do to get a Shire from this new Hunt.
The new mechanism runs well enough - a bit hard to get used to the way it responds very suddenly to the controller (compared to modern models), and the traction tyres create the usual problems, but otherwise it's ok, about as good as the old tender-drive one!

[Coronach]

What additional hacking is there in addition to the outside steam pipes which were the only obvious ones to me?
I'm also a bit disturbed by the 'sudden response' you mention. Please don't tell me it's like the old Ringfield 'steam catapult' start from the bad old days or I'll be selling the loco and reverting to the old Comet chassis and second-hand body plan.

Dave.

[Daddyman]

Four pictures attached: two showing the mounting of Lentz-poppet gubbins to body, two showing the 'permanent' coupling for those interested in buying one of these locos for conversion and not sure what 'permanently coupled' means.
The additional hacking would be the apocryphal pipe that runs along the lower half of the boiler on both sides.
However, I do think the chassis shape is better than the Comet one, which is poor in the firebox area and made of very very thin brass - worth bearing in mind if anyone hasn't actually had their hands on one.
If I was really going to go at this model seriously for myself, rather than just half-heartedly for my dad (!), these are the things I'd want to address (I'd be producing a Shire):
1. Aforementioned pipes on boiler side.
2. The splasher front, nameplate and beading are a stick-on addition, meaning that the splasher protrudes too far, but if you took it off you'd be left with no beading...
3. Lack of cab roof overhang at the front.
4. No surrounds to the cab front windows.
5. Poor blower pipe - I'd personally want to cut it off and start again.
6. Smokebox door needs replacing.
7. New handrail with correct shape over smokebox front and all new handrail knobs.
8. Valve gear and cylinders.
9. TENDER! Are Bachmann bringing out a 2251 with a GC tender? Would this tender be any use? - cheaper than an O4 anyway!
By 'sudden response' I meant you turn the controller a bit and it slows down much more than more recent models. It's not a problem starting and can probably be got used to. If you do start too fast on a heavy train it shakes itself off the rails, because of the traction tyres!

[Coronach]

Cheers Daddyman. I have sourced a GC tender for the job so I've got that one covered. All the other stuff I can cope with, being well within my own capabilities.
Big job but worth the effort I'd say!

Dave.

[S.A.C. Martin]

I think my plan to replace the traction tyre driving wheel is going ahead then. That sounds not unlike the problems I have had with my 4VEP, so the alarm bells are ringing already.

Why the traction tyres, in this day and age? I know the Midland Compound and City of Truro models are much higher spec and more expensive, but surely there's a way of adding weight and improving performance, even at the level of the Railroad range, for a 4-4-0?

[Daddyman]

Another set of photos.
Two show the cylinder/valve gear mounting for those considering the Comet route, while the two side-on shots show how much valve gear we cut away, compared an unadulterated 1980s Cheshire (from which the latest release is no different in this area). I wasn't responsible for the lumpy green paint on Cheshire's cylinders!

[S.A.C. Martin]

Daddyman, thank you for those sets of photographs, most helpful. Can you confirm if the cylinders can be removed entirely as per the older tender drive version?

[Daddyman]

Exactly the same fitting as Cheshire. They're springy plastic and have to be prised out from under the retaining tags on the metal chassis (see photo above). I managed to remove them with only a few swearwords...
Removing them does tend to distort the stretcher bar, but it can be bent/filed back to shape.

[S.A.C. Martin]

Excellent, thanks for that. Makes my conversion into The Morpeth a bit easier.

I've removed most of the moulded detail but will have to tackle the cab handrails next on my bodyshell, along with adding rivets.

[Atlantic 3279]

Hello D. I'm glad that this detailing work is being posted up, as I too have a D49 (old type) to further improve some time, after having a first-go at it some years ago. I'm interested to see that the curse of traction tyres persists on the latest Hornby 4-4-0 mechanism - that makes me feel a little less disadvantaged by my choice this time of a Schools chassis which has the same annoying feature. It may get re-wheeled with spare A4 wheels in due course. I'm also interested to see the Hornby solution to the problem of fitting the motor within the existing body moulding - fit it backwards. I can't do that on my Schools chassis of course, so I'll have to chop and shape the body. I do however get reasonable valve gear for the Shire version (okay the slidebars aren't quite right as they are just slightly remote from the cylinder rears) and I get nice big cylinders. My ex-Sandwich spare valve crosshead guides may come in handy! Looking at Cheshire I can see that you have done something to move the cylinders forward to a better position than Hornby adopted, and the painting/lining of the green panel helps to make them look big enough. I totally re-made the cylinders and stretcher in layers of plastikard for my first round of improvements to my currently still tender-driven Lincolnshire so as to get the necessary bulk. Unfortunately, memory does not answer the question of how hard it was to get the slidebars out of the originals. If I have time, and if I can find any pictures, I may later post up an indication of what I did and how far I got. It included adding stepped copings to the tender.

[Blink Bonny]

Ay up!

Couple of points arising from these.

1. Bachmann are indeed about to produce a 2251 with a GC tender and it is due in the shops shortly. We've had the review sample for BRM in the clubroom for testing. Sadly, it has an ROD tender, correct for the 2251, but wrong I believe for the D49. However, Atlantic 3279 does a very good resin tender top box to change it to the correct type.

2. Think carefully about the tyres. We've also had the Hornby "County" 4-4-0 and new "Castle" for test. The "Castle" politely refused to take more than 12 coaches round the layout. The 4-4-0 took 15 round before slipping set in. Without the tyres, it wouldn't have taken many because there's not a lot or room for extra weight.

[Daddyman]

Hello Atlantic. Not exactly detailing work, more gilding the sow's ear!
I wouldn't be too put off by this chassis. I think it just takes some getting used to in terms of running qualities. I'd go for Comet valve gear and cylinders, though.
BTW, my dad didn't make any mods to the Cheshire cylinders back in the 80s. Only mod was a bit of foam between bogie and chassis to compensate for lack of balance at the front end.
blink bonny - this slips with six Hornby new-style Gresley corridors!

[Blink Bonny]

Ay up!

Interesting, Daddyman. The rake behind this "County" 4-4-0 was a mixture of Hornby Mk1s and Bachmann bogied Kitmasters. My Hornby 9F struggled with it.

[Coronach]

Haulage capacity isn't such a big issue for me as she's unlikely ever to exceed load 3 passenger or 15 SLU goods in the context of my planned Waverley Route layout.

Dave.