Great work, as ever Jonathanjwealleans wrote:Steady progress - this is a busy time of year other than at the modelling bench - has brought us closer to finishing.
I did read the Kemilway instructions and then largely disregarded them.
BG just needs the handles and handrails fitting and a back putting on the battery boxes.
TK and BCK awaiting bogies.
West End Workbench
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Re: West End Workbench
(recreating pre-war Grantham in model form http://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9076.
Forthcoming exhibition appearances: Newcastle (Nov 2023); York (Easter 2024); Bristol (May 2024)
Forthcoming exhibition appearances: Newcastle (Nov 2023); York (Easter 2024); Bristol (May 2024)
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Re: West End Workbench
John,
I did manage a brief look in the few spare minutes we had after lunch. I didn't go through the sample book carefully, but what struck me about those I did see was how dark they were. The contemporary pictures - albeit monochrome - seem to show the interiors as light and airy. It may be that the dyes have altered over time, or that the fabric was a less significant part of the overall scheme than in other carriages.
I did manage a brief look in the few spare minutes we had after lunch. I didn't go through the sample book carefully, but what struck me about those I did see was how dark they were. The contemporary pictures - albeit monochrome - seem to show the interiors as light and airy. It may be that the dyes have altered over time, or that the fabric was a less significant part of the overall scheme than in other carriages.
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Re: West End Workbench
Someone commented while I was down at Ely helping with the show that I hadn't been posting as much as usual. Well, I have been busy and travelling for work recently, but fundamentally I haven't been doing anything new, just more of the same. However, not wanting to disappoint a clearly eager public, I made sure I took some pictures last night. I had a session a couple of weekends ago making corridor connectors. This was the last thing a number of carriages needed, including some which had been otherwise complete for a while. You've seen them all before, but I like looking at them, so here they are coupled up to check clearances and the like and in no particular order:
Still in works is the Kemilway GN BCK although the body is largely complete. It really only needs internal handrails and signage. In the background is the 5 compartment BTK, the last of this batch of carriages and now making its way through the paint shop.
Note the naked bogie. Dart Castings have changed the design of the etched 8'6" bogie, doing away with the 'figure 8' hole which allowed two positions for the bearing and etching only one. This has the effect of making the bogie about half a mil higher - not much, but you can see that it shows on the photo. It also means that bogies are no longer interchangeable across the whole of the stock and given the design of Bill's couplings which I use, means that a higher carriage will lift a lower one slightly off the rails, making it easier for it to derail. I know there were height variations on stock, but on models it looks odd. Anyway, they've kindly agreed to make me some more of the old design, but these things take time to come through. That means I currently have five carriages 'awaiting bogies'.
These ought to be ready for Grantham in September. Visible above is the same diagram of carriage from 4 different manufacturers, nicely consistent in appearance. They are fairly readily distinguished when seen close up.
On the subject of bogies, I need to be able to fit Kadees to some of these carriages to allow for engine changes, detaching, etc. I've obtained a couple of packs of Bachmann Gresley bogies from my friendly local model shop and have been working on getting them consistently level with the MJT ones and then fitting a NEM pocket.
This involves cutting out the centre and lowering the level of the central part, then using the gap at one end (where the original tension lock coupling went) to house a NEM pocket. The standard screw-on pocket holder from a Bachmann wagon was too low, being designed to go under a wagon buffer beam. Fortunately a friend gave me some moulded in ones which he'd cut out of a wagon floor and which therefore sit much higher above track level. That was the idea I needed, so a donor wagon was ripped mercilessly apart (it would have had - will have - 3 links fitted anyway):
The coupling mount and base were files down to fit the roughly triangular slot in the bogie and then attached. You can see in the first picture that I've added a layer of plastikard over the top of the hole to give more 'land' for the coupling to adhere to.
After that the presstud has to be soldered to some small pieces of brass (scrap fret) such that it just sits above the level of the central bolster.
It's a bit of a fiddle, but ultimately these will go under almost any carriage and allow them to be coupled/uncoupled as the whim of the Grantham timetablers dictates.
Still in works is the Kemilway GN BCK although the body is largely complete. It really only needs internal handrails and signage. In the background is the 5 compartment BTK, the last of this batch of carriages and now making its way through the paint shop.
Note the naked bogie. Dart Castings have changed the design of the etched 8'6" bogie, doing away with the 'figure 8' hole which allowed two positions for the bearing and etching only one. This has the effect of making the bogie about half a mil higher - not much, but you can see that it shows on the photo. It also means that bogies are no longer interchangeable across the whole of the stock and given the design of Bill's couplings which I use, means that a higher carriage will lift a lower one slightly off the rails, making it easier for it to derail. I know there were height variations on stock, but on models it looks odd. Anyway, they've kindly agreed to make me some more of the old design, but these things take time to come through. That means I currently have five carriages 'awaiting bogies'.
These ought to be ready for Grantham in September. Visible above is the same diagram of carriage from 4 different manufacturers, nicely consistent in appearance. They are fairly readily distinguished when seen close up.
On the subject of bogies, I need to be able to fit Kadees to some of these carriages to allow for engine changes, detaching, etc. I've obtained a couple of packs of Bachmann Gresley bogies from my friendly local model shop and have been working on getting them consistently level with the MJT ones and then fitting a NEM pocket.
This involves cutting out the centre and lowering the level of the central part, then using the gap at one end (where the original tension lock coupling went) to house a NEM pocket. The standard screw-on pocket holder from a Bachmann wagon was too low, being designed to go under a wagon buffer beam. Fortunately a friend gave me some moulded in ones which he'd cut out of a wagon floor and which therefore sit much higher above track level. That was the idea I needed, so a donor wagon was ripped mercilessly apart (it would have had - will have - 3 links fitted anyway):
The coupling mount and base were files down to fit the roughly triangular slot in the bogie and then attached. You can see in the first picture that I've added a layer of plastikard over the top of the hole to give more 'land' for the coupling to adhere to.
After that the presstud has to be soldered to some small pieces of brass (scrap fret) such that it just sits above the level of the central bolster.
It's a bit of a fiddle, but ultimately these will go under almost any carriage and allow them to be coupled/uncoupled as the whim of the Grantham timetablers dictates.
Last edited by jwealleans on Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:26 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: West End Workbench
Good morning all
The carriages look great, JW.
Is the clerestory one of those produced by Peter K?
Earlswood nob
The carriages look great, JW.
Is the clerestory one of those produced by Peter K?
Earlswood nob
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Re: West End Workbench
Afternoon, EN.
No, it's not. This one is:
The one in the post above is produced from two sets of Ian Kirk sides. I can't claim all the credit, it was started by a chap called Nigel Hunt and came to me via Ebay from his estate. It must have been a lot of work. All I've really done is produced a roof (from GK's resin castings) and finished it off.
No, it's not. This one is:
The one in the post above is produced from two sets of Ian Kirk sides. I can't claim all the credit, it was started by a chap called Nigel Hunt and came to me via Ebay from his estate. It must have been a lot of work. All I've really done is produced a roof (from GK's resin castings) and finished it off.
Last edited by jwealleans on Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: West End Workbench
Good morning all
The clerestory looks good, but the Kirk sides must have needed a lot of work to get the result shown.
It's a shame that Kirk sides don't seem to be available anymore from Coopercraft. However, I have such a roundtuit pile, that I need to reduce it before I take on any more projects.
Planning my layout and preparing my spare room for it, isn't the simple job that I thought.
Earlswood nob
The clerestory looks good, but the Kirk sides must have needed a lot of work to get the result shown.
It's a shame that Kirk sides don't seem to be available anymore from Coopercraft. However, I have such a roundtuit pile, that I need to reduce it before I take on any more projects.
Planning my layout and preparing my spare room for it, isn't the simple job that I thought.
Earlswood nob
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Re: West End Workbench
Jonathan,
Oh yes, I have quite a Timetable Whim!!!!
Just completed transcribing the moves. Now going for a lie down before update the Shedmasters chart?
It is good to see a photo update on your work. Lovely stuff. I Look forward to seeing them soon
Paul 4475
Oh yes, I have quite a Timetable Whim!!!!
Just completed transcribing the moves. Now going for a lie down before update the Shedmasters chart?
It is good to see a photo update on your work. Lovely stuff. I Look forward to seeing them soon
Paul 4475
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Re: West End Workbench
I had a day on wagons yesterday, what with the weather being foul and the carriages being almost as far along as I can get them.
First a couple of repair jobs for Ormesby. This approximation of a GC open is from a Cambrian kit. I broke this taking a wheelset out to check the BTB, the W iron simply snapped off. It had plastic bracing up the back so I suspect it may have broken or been stressed before. Anyway, this was easier than I thought it might be; remove the opposite axleguard and replace with Wizard Models fairly new pregrouping W iron etch. I hadn't used these before and they were very easy to make up and fit. One slight issue was that the hole in the rocking unit is a very slack fit over the long tabs on the fixed pivot. I had to put a slight twist in these when bending them over to prevent the axle being able to go out of square to the track. I also had to widen the gap between the solebars to allow the unit to rock freely.
Next an LNER Insulated van with a similar problem - this one broke apart in traffic, the whitemetal W iron having failed.
The wheels on these are 14mm, so it was a Comet rocking axleguard unit for this one; first though I had to build a platform inside the wagon to mount it to. Removing the brake shoes widened the gap between solebars, but I had to extend that further. There is still a ledge around the inside of the van, so a piece of 60 thou making a snug fit was Araldited in with reinforcing pieces above to hold it in place. The rocker unit will then be attached to this.
There was space inside the rocker to glue the cast brakeshoes in place, with a small amount of shaving for clearance.
Other than that it was largely a case of picking up whatever was closest to hand and getting on with it. It must have been a shock for this LSWR bogie bolster to be worked on, I haven't touched it for months. It now has lashing rings and buffers and some painting as well.
We're off out with Thurston again at the end of July (for positively the last time this time) and I like to take something new each time, so I've made a start on titivating a BR bogie bolster. I can't remember where I picked this up (Hereford Model Centre rings a bell) but I don't have much more in mind than a weathering and adding chains to it. If there are any other glaring issues with it which are worth resolving, please let me know.
I also had this kicking about - MOY were the largest coal and coke dealer in East Anglia and their wagons were seen everywhere. So there'll be one seen on Thurston before long. I thought it was a Bachmann, turned out to be Mainline, so the sides need thinning down a bit and I may well discard the horrible chassis and knock something better up from the spares box.
First a couple of repair jobs for Ormesby. This approximation of a GC open is from a Cambrian kit. I broke this taking a wheelset out to check the BTB, the W iron simply snapped off. It had plastic bracing up the back so I suspect it may have broken or been stressed before. Anyway, this was easier than I thought it might be; remove the opposite axleguard and replace with Wizard Models fairly new pregrouping W iron etch. I hadn't used these before and they were very easy to make up and fit. One slight issue was that the hole in the rocking unit is a very slack fit over the long tabs on the fixed pivot. I had to put a slight twist in these when bending them over to prevent the axle being able to go out of square to the track. I also had to widen the gap between the solebars to allow the unit to rock freely.
Next an LNER Insulated van with a similar problem - this one broke apart in traffic, the whitemetal W iron having failed.
The wheels on these are 14mm, so it was a Comet rocking axleguard unit for this one; first though I had to build a platform inside the wagon to mount it to. Removing the brake shoes widened the gap between solebars, but I had to extend that further. There is still a ledge around the inside of the van, so a piece of 60 thou making a snug fit was Araldited in with reinforcing pieces above to hold it in place. The rocker unit will then be attached to this.
There was space inside the rocker to glue the cast brakeshoes in place, with a small amount of shaving for clearance.
Other than that it was largely a case of picking up whatever was closest to hand and getting on with it. It must have been a shock for this LSWR bogie bolster to be worked on, I haven't touched it for months. It now has lashing rings and buffers and some painting as well.
We're off out with Thurston again at the end of July (for positively the last time this time) and I like to take something new each time, so I've made a start on titivating a BR bogie bolster. I can't remember where I picked this up (Hereford Model Centre rings a bell) but I don't have much more in mind than a weathering and adding chains to it. If there are any other glaring issues with it which are worth resolving, please let me know.
I also had this kicking about - MOY were the largest coal and coke dealer in East Anglia and their wagons were seen everywhere. So there'll be one seen on Thurston before long. I thought it was a Bachmann, turned out to be Mainline, so the sides need thinning down a bit and I may well discard the horrible chassis and knock something better up from the spares box.
Last edited by jwealleans on Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: West End Workbench
Another one of your eager public pleased to see some updates. Great stuff
(recreating pre-war Grantham in model form http://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9076.
Forthcoming exhibition appearances: Newcastle (Nov 2023); York (Easter 2024); Bristol (May 2024)
Forthcoming exhibition appearances: Newcastle (Nov 2023); York (Easter 2024); Bristol (May 2024)
Re: West End Workbench
Will you be shortening it to the 16'6" length?jwealleans wrote: I thought it was a Bachmann, turned out to be Mainline, so the sides need thinning down a bit and I may well discard the horrible chassis and knock something better up from the spares box.
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Re: West End Workbench
Unlikely.
I thought it was too short, but I'm not in a position to measure it right now.
I thought it was too short, but I'm not in a position to measure it right now.
Re: West End Workbench
Unfortunately both the Mainline/early Bachmann and the Airfix/Dapol/now Hornby wooden PO mineral wagons were stretched lengthwise to fit on their standard 10'WB,17'6" chassis, so are 4mm overlength for a 1923 RCH wagon.jwealleans wrote: I thought it was too short, but I'm not in a position to measure it right now.
The current Bachmann [Blue Riband] wagons are correct as they have a 16'6" body on a 9'WB chassis.
Drmditch has shortened a couple and they may be seen on his 'Make do and mend' thread,I was just interested to see if/how you were going to tackle it..
[Guess who has a fair few of those old wagon bodies 'in stock'.. ]
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Re: West End Workbench
If I were starting again, that's where I would look to start from, I only pick up Bachmann PO wagons if I want any these days. This was kicking about, no idea where it came from, so it will do. I have another one already in the stock which I did some time ago and no-one has ever said anything.
If you're going to start chopping them up and altering the strapping, you might as well kit or scratchbuild, TBH, you'll take less time to get a better result. If this one hadn't been a MOY wagon it would have been sold by now.
If you're going to start chopping them up and altering the strapping, you might as well kit or scratchbuild, TBH, you'll take less time to get a better result. If this one hadn't been a MOY wagon it would have been sold by now.
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Re: West End Workbench
I may be a bit late to the party, but what an excellent tool the Silhouette Cutter seems to be. I hate to think how many hours I'd have taken to make these otherwise. Thanks to Paul Bolton for drawing them up and cutting them out for me.
While those were drying, another project which has been in limbo for a while. Meat containers. Some may recall the container and flat I made some months ago and which Mr King kindly cast up in resin for me. I made a start on one of the flats this evening.
The flat is finely cast but fairly frail, so I reckoned it will need some reinforcement. I have 6 to finish, so three will be done one way and three another to see which works best. This one has had brass angle araldited down each side behind the solebar to keep it straight and rigid.
MJT units on top, slightly shortened at each side as if they sit on the angle the buffers are a midge's too high. The brakes are from the invaluable Mainly Trains etch.
... and with a container in place. Being short wheelbase (9') and very light, it's a bit skittish and will need plenty of weight adding once detailed. I've a mind to use the Comet wagon underframe on the other 3 as it seems to me to offer a rigid support for the fairly thin floor and body. Has anyone used them?
While those were drying, another project which has been in limbo for a while. Meat containers. Some may recall the container and flat I made some months ago and which Mr King kindly cast up in resin for me. I made a start on one of the flats this evening.
The flat is finely cast but fairly frail, so I reckoned it will need some reinforcement. I have 6 to finish, so three will be done one way and three another to see which works best. This one has had brass angle araldited down each side behind the solebar to keep it straight and rigid.
MJT units on top, slightly shortened at each side as if they sit on the angle the buffers are a midge's too high. The brakes are from the invaluable Mainly Trains etch.
... and with a container in place. Being short wheelbase (9') and very light, it's a bit skittish and will need plenty of weight adding once detailed. I've a mind to use the Comet wagon underframe on the other 3 as it seems to me to offer a rigid support for the fairly thin floor and body. Has anyone used them?
Last edited by jwealleans on Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:25 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: West End Workbench
Excellent idea to use the silhouette cutter for coach interiors.
Most subjects, models and techniques covered in this thread are now listed in various categories on page1
Dec. 2018: Almost all images that disappeared from my own thread following loss of free remote hosting are now restored.
Dec. 2018: Almost all images that disappeared from my own thread following loss of free remote hosting are now restored.