West End Workbench

[Atlantic 3279]

What longer motor than a 28 do you have in mind for the B16 Jonathan, and what if any further advantage do you expect to gain from it? The longest 14 wide Mashima I've ever managed to obtain was a 30, and I've not seen one of those on offer for a long time.

[jwealleans]

I hadn't thought about it, TBH - it was just a reaction based on the amount of space I could see in the boiler even with that motor fitted.

High Level can do a 1430.

I suppose it might just be the temptation to be able to say 'Mine's bigger'.

[earlswood nob]

Afternoon all
Branchlines also advertise the 1430, but it is less powerful than the 1428. It is equivalent to the 1424, but lower revving.
Whilst the B16 is a heavy body, you could always add more lead.
Earlswood nob

[jwealleans]

it is less powerful than the 1428. It is equivalent to the 1424, but lower revving.

What's your source for this, EN? Not that I want to disagree, but there used to be an excellent analysis of different Mashima motors and their qualities on RMWeb, written by Geoff Baxter of Hollywood Foundry. It has gone and despite my asking, shows no sign of reappearing. I'd like to find something equivalent if I can.

[earlswood nob]

Good morning JW
Branchlines publish a price list with motor performance details.
Watch your email
Earlswood nob

[mick b]

http://www.hollywoodfoundry.com/mashima.htm

note the power difference between 10 and 12 series motors

[jwealleans]

Thanks for that, both. I did know the 12xx were less powerful than the 10xx series but I haven't built too many big engines in recent years so had lost track of the bigger sizes a bit.

Where Geoff's article was handy was taking those raw figures and giving ideas about where the different characteristics of the motors made them most useful. I might email him and ask if he still has it.

[Dave]

Jonathan,
Got the transfers yesterday and they are exquisite, thanks for the info.

[Atlantic 3279]

Peak power and peak torque figures are not all that helpful. If the 10 series has higher power than the twelve, but only as a very pronounced peak at higher revs, then the 12s may be more useful motors for dignified loco behaviour without ridiculous gear ratios, supposing they have a much wider and more even output.

[earlswood nob]

Afternoon all
When I made my first attempt at railway modelling c1968-73, I used Alex Bowie's Modelmania at Norbury (I believe he was the editor of MRC at one time). He said to me that any fool can make a loco go fast, but the skill is to make a loco run smoothly at low speeds.
I first saw the Kays HP2M with the Y8. By the time it had enough power to move the loco it was runing very fast. That got put in the cupboard, and only surfaced relatively recently when it was fitted with a Mashima 1015 with a 108:1 gearbox. It runs smoothly now.
I do have a couple of 1224's in locos, and they run reasonably well, but I prefer the 1024 if I cannot get a 14xx series motor to fit. The 1024 seems a very flexible motor and quite powerful.
I have test run a Mashima 1830 in a couple of chassis, and it is a wonderfully smooth runner. It is a low revving motor so the gearing has to be different to other motors. I shall fit an 1830 into my rebuilt W1, my Kays P2 when it is refurbished, and it just squeezes into the firebox of an A3 when I attempt to follow Atlantic 3279's conversion to a P1.
Earlswood nob

[jwealleans]

A bit of stock testing this evening. B16 failed before the camera came out - nothing too serious, a failed solder joint, but a works rather than field repair. Fortunately we were able to call on a capable substitute.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbSDDdqiY5Q

This train or something similar may well be seen at or near Grantham in due course.

[LNER4479]

Fighting you every inch of the way that B16 isn't it? Hope repair proves to be as straightforward as you think. The C7 has landed so hoping they can share the roster for this working (train looks great).

[jwealleans]

Repair should be straightforward enough - the wire connecting the negative side of the motor to the chassis has come unsoldered. It also serves as the motor stay so it's under a bit of flex when running. I'll drill a hole through the girder chassis and hook it through that - that'll sort it.

The loco needs a complete chassis rebuild TBH - it's very sloppy, which I've made worse by moving the drive to the rear axle and I wouldn't trust it to do more than go round and round. Once it's going it's smooth enough and fairly powerful, so it should meet our needs for BH.

[earlswood nob]

Good morning all
From the pic of the B16, it looks like a screwed together chassis, which would lead to sloppiness.
I like the motor driving on the rear axle, especially through a gearbox such as the High Level Roadrunner Plus, or Loadhauler Plus. The motor can then be positioned in the firebox easier.
It's a pity they don't do a Highflier Plus as that would be useful, However, the Roadrunner Plus with a Drive Extender is a good substitute.
Your workrate amazes me. There is no way I could match your speed of building kits etc., or perhaps it's that I'm easily distracted.
Now to scratch-build a chassis.
Earlswood nob

[jwealleans]

Morning EN.

The chassis is screwed together, but that's nor really the root of the problem. The main issue is the overenlarged holes in the rods which slop all over the place. The wheels look like the old Romfords which you used to have to tap yourself, and the builder has used screws, bolts, the odd Romford crankpin and anything else to hand as crankpins. I assume he's then had to compensate for different sizes of crankpin when it's gone together. He drove on the centre axle which would have helped (and is usually my preference, to be fair) and moving to the rear one has magnified the slop as you will understand. I replaced one of the crankpin washers with a bush which has helped a bit, but really it needs replacement rods or if I can't find any it'll be small washers soldered to the back of the rods to reduce the holes.

It goes further than that, though - when I reassembled it it was nose down and nose heavy - the cylinders need to move up about 1mm relative to the chassis. The mounting bracket bolts to the chassis but the bolt is almost invisible under a coat of Araldite, so I've packed above it and am ignoring the gap above the cylinders for the moment.