Thanks Daddyman, I do have details of the roof arrangement on diagram 5, along with a few historic photos to check against. However your offer is gratefully accepted.
My era of modelling is loosely during the 1920s/30s with a few variations due to some oddity I've wanted to show, even if slightly outside this time frame but generally ex NER to LNER.
Graeme Leary
NER Clerestory carriage kits
Moderators: 52D, Tom F, Rlangham, Atlantic 3279, Blink Bonny, Saint Johnstoun, richard
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Graeme Leary
- GNR C1 4-4-2
- Posts: 760
- Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:43 pm
Re: NER Clerestory carriage kits
So, overall roof width should be 35mm and length = 210mm.
All vents and lamp tops should be 8mm in from the long edge. Note that this is not the case on (narrower) D.18 brakes. Guess how I found that out....
On the side with the toilet at the LH end, the roof fittings should be positioned as follows (measuring from toilet end) (V= vent; T = lamp top):
22.75 (V), 33.41 (V), 48.32 (V), 57.85 (T), 62.36 (V), 80.73 (T), 118.13 (V), then all vents are in standard position (i.e. central over RH window of each compartment).
On the side with the toilet at the RH end, the roof fittings should be positioned as follows (measuring from toilet end):
89.16 (V), 72.85 (V), 62.20 (T), 58.23 (V), 41.57 (T), 7.6 (V).
The other four vents are in the standard position central over the RH window of each compartment.
The "pips" on the clerestory roof are central over each compartment door.
All vents and lamp tops should be 8mm in from the long edge. Note that this is not the case on (narrower) D.18 brakes. Guess how I found that out....
On the side with the toilet at the LH end, the roof fittings should be positioned as follows (measuring from toilet end) (V= vent; T = lamp top):
22.75 (V), 33.41 (V), 48.32 (V), 57.85 (T), 62.36 (V), 80.73 (T), 118.13 (V), then all vents are in standard position (i.e. central over RH window of each compartment).
On the side with the toilet at the RH end, the roof fittings should be positioned as follows (measuring from toilet end):
89.16 (V), 72.85 (V), 62.20 (T), 58.23 (V), 41.57 (T), 7.6 (V).
The other four vents are in the standard position central over the RH window of each compartment.
The "pips" on the clerestory roof are central over each compartment door.
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Graeme Leary
- GNR C1 4-4-2
- Posts: 760
- Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:43 pm
Re: NER Clerestory carriage kits
Thanks Daddyman (and apologies for tardy reply).
Will add your dimensions to the drawing I have to get things correct.
Graeme,
NZ
Will add your dimensions to the drawing I have to get things correct.
Graeme,
NZ
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Graeme Leary
- GNR C1 4-4-2
- Posts: 760
- Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:43 pm
Re: NER Clerestory carriage kits
PS: And no idea where you got the info on the lamp tops and vents - illumination gratefully accepted.
G
G
Re: NER Clerestory carriage kits
Long and careful study of photos. There are also a couple of drawings of them - one by Ives and one by Sadler. They show NER condition on one side (albeit with the steps at different ends), and photo KT02270, a side-on works shot in the NERA archive, shows the other side (toilet to the left). Then it's just a question of working out what the LNER kept. This photo in Ernie Brack's Flickr album at Brampton appears to show a D5 from the same side as KT022070 but in LNER days: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswis ... 890893261/Graeme Leary wrote: ↑Tue Aug 06, 2024 5:24 am PS: And no idea where you got the info on the lamp tops and vents - illumination gratefully accepted.
G
Transport Library image LSDC1150 shows a late-life D74 from which toilet roof details for a D.5 can be extrapolated.
Note that the D&S kit is best used to represent a low-numbered D.5 as some changes to the clerestory and to the toilet window happened on later builds. I numbered mine 22643.
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Mark Tatlow
- NER Y7 0-4-0T
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2015 10:25 pm
Re: NER Clerestory carriage kits
With apologies if I send this off topic, but has anyone else encountered issues with the D&S dia 7 composite (which is really a locker composite).
I am now six D&S's down but the last one was by far the toughest, due to the sides of the clerestory. These were about 1.2mm too shallow. As a consequence of this the head and bases of the clerestory lights are really thin and hence almost impossible to keep straight. Whilst I was aware of the fight with the head and base of the clerestory lights was apparent immediately, it wasn't until I offered the ends up that I realised how serious the issue was.
I ended up fudging this by splicing an additional strip onto the bottom of the clerestory sides but this is not really correct as it ought to be split equally top and bottom.
So the query is has anyone else encountered this and then are there any others in the range with the same issue?
I am now six D&S's down but the last one was by far the toughest, due to the sides of the clerestory. These were about 1.2mm too shallow. As a consequence of this the head and bases of the clerestory lights are really thin and hence almost impossible to keep straight. Whilst I was aware of the fight with the head and base of the clerestory lights was apparent immediately, it wasn't until I offered the ends up that I realised how serious the issue was.
Mark Tatlow
You can see what i am upto on my blog www.highlandmiscellany.com Proud to be a member of the Scalefour Society and the LMS Society:
You can see what i am upto on my blog www.highlandmiscellany.com Proud to be a member of the Scalefour Society and the LMS Society:
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Chas Levin
- GER D14 4-4-0 'Claud Hamilton'
- Posts: 300
- Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2015 11:54 am
- Location: London
Re: NER Clerestory carriage kits
With further apologies for possibly taking it even further off-topic, and also for providing a possibly only tangentially helpful reply, I can tell you that this issue is not present with D&S 310 ECJS 45' Luggage Brake clerestory carriage.
Chas
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jwealleans
- LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
- Posts: 4302
- Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:46 am
Re: NER Clerestory carriage kits
I haven't had that problem, Mark and that's one of Dan's kits I have not built. I have built the lavatory compo, both BTs and the all third up to now.
For anyone else with the same problem, I think Worsley Works do etches for some of these carriages - might they do the clerestory etch separately?
For anyone else with the same problem, I think Worsley Works do etches for some of these carriages - might they do the clerestory etch separately?
Re: NER Clerestory carriage kits
Worsley do , no idea if he will sell the sides only, he does the roof for £20 as below.
http://worsleyworks.co.uk/4mm/4mm_LNER_NER.htm
http://worsleyworks.co.uk/4mm/4mm_LNER_NER.htm
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northernmike
- NER Y7 0-4-0T
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2024 1:23 pm
Re: NER Clerestory carriage kits
Returning to Mark Tatlows problem with a D&S kit for Dia 7 I have also come across this problem so we can conclude there was batch with a faulty etch, definitely not of merchantable quality. I have another unstarted kit for a Dia 7 which does not have this problem so it looks like it was picked up and corrected at some stage. But that does not help when you have the faulty etch.
There are probably more options to correct it if you notice the fault before you bend and solder the sides, but I did not notice the problem until I had done this, and I suspect the same happened to Mark. It might the possible to cut the sides off and solder strips to the top and bottom of the etch to create the proper depth for the clearstory sides. But that would require skills way above anything that I possess. Part of the problem is that the etch leaves the edge as thin as fine wire and it is difficult to keep it straight and level.
I am basically a bodger and initially I started to build new sides from plasticard overlaying clear perspex but I soon gave that up when I realised that it would be difficult to paint. I decided to go with the clerestory as I had soldered it up. I decided that the main objective would be to end up with a clerestory in which there would be no gap between the side and the main coach roof and accept that it would be inaccurate as a model. I cut plasticard strips of an appropriate depth to sit behind the etched sides and reach down to the carriage roof line. I then cut out the areas corresponding to the windows and glued the strips behind the etches. This is by no means perfect, it is a bodge. The window surrounds may be deeper than they should be and there is ridge where the etch sits over the plastic but it does not look too bad to the naked eye. If the latter issue worries you it could be corrected with some thin plastic strip .
I took some photos and in magnification the whole thing looks a bit horrible but in real life its not so bad. Unfortunately i can't work out how to attach the photos to this message. I hope Mark finds some consolation in this. At least someone else has shared your frustrations. I think that I must have been working on this coach at the time David Addyman's research came to my attention because I have not done anymore to it while I think of its implications for what I have built in the coach and how the roof is to be arranged.
Cheers
Michael
There are probably more options to correct it if you notice the fault before you bend and solder the sides, but I did not notice the problem until I had done this, and I suspect the same happened to Mark. It might the possible to cut the sides off and solder strips to the top and bottom of the etch to create the proper depth for the clearstory sides. But that would require skills way above anything that I possess. Part of the problem is that the etch leaves the edge as thin as fine wire and it is difficult to keep it straight and level.
I am basically a bodger and initially I started to build new sides from plasticard overlaying clear perspex but I soon gave that up when I realised that it would be difficult to paint. I decided to go with the clerestory as I had soldered it up. I decided that the main objective would be to end up with a clerestory in which there would be no gap between the side and the main coach roof and accept that it would be inaccurate as a model. I cut plasticard strips of an appropriate depth to sit behind the etched sides and reach down to the carriage roof line. I then cut out the areas corresponding to the windows and glued the strips behind the etches. This is by no means perfect, it is a bodge. The window surrounds may be deeper than they should be and there is ridge where the etch sits over the plastic but it does not look too bad to the naked eye. If the latter issue worries you it could be corrected with some thin plastic strip .
I took some photos and in magnification the whole thing looks a bit horrible but in real life its not so bad. Unfortunately i can't work out how to attach the photos to this message. I hope Mark finds some consolation in this. At least someone else has shared your frustrations. I think that I must have been working on this coach at the time David Addyman's research came to my attention because I have not done anymore to it while I think of its implications for what I have built in the coach and how the roof is to be arranged.
Cheers
Michael