Help with engineers' trains

[TimMeese]

I'm working on a couple of LNER engineers’ trains, but need some advice on consists and liveries. The usual thing here is to look at photos, but I've found nothing on complete trains. Tatlow's first book ('...an illustrated overview') has individual vehicles, but also raises as many questions for me as it answers. I've not yet been able to get hold of his newer Vol1 and Vol2 books - does anyone know if there is anything relevant for me in those?

Anyway, here are the trains and my problems.

1. A breakdown train, built around the Hornby (Thomas!) model (I think some detailing and rebuilding can at least make that look plausible).

The question here concerns the rest of the train. I envisage perhaps a van for tools, a mess van, perhaps an open or two, maybe even a ballast wagon for tidying up various upsets, and maybe a plate and/or double bolster for carrying away any fallen obstructions. But what happens at the rear? Is it reasonable to run an old 3rd-brake carriage, loosely coupled and use that as the brake and mess (with added stove)? Or would the mess be close-coupled to the engine, with a conventional brake van at the rear? And if so, would that brake be in Engineer's blue or the conventional red oxide/bauxite? And were modern brakes ever used, or is something like a birdcage (I'm thinking of the Slaters kit) more likely?

And here's a more general Q about the blue. Tatlow suggests that the various shades (from Oxford to Cambridge) were largely due to weathering, but plate 287 shows a freshly painted pale (presumably Cambridge-ish blue) ballast wagon. So, were these variations in colour from the tin, regional or period, and would different shades find themselves in the same train?

2. The second train is a more general engineers train. Err. That's the problem. I have the beginnings of a fine set of white metal wagons from 51L (they build beautifully in my view) and date from pre-group years making likely candidates for the engineer. But I have very little feel for what is really needed. I don’t want a ballast train - I'm building that for BR - so any other (interesting) engineer’s train would do (e.g. signal, civil, what else?), but I need a feel for the consists.

Thanks as always,

[Bryan]

If you have access to the "Fastline" DVDs Behind the Scenes 1 - 4
these cover a vast array of Civils jobs on the NE from 1920s onwards.
Some may be just to far into early BR for you but they may help.
There are numerous CE trains in view, these may give you some ideas.
Number 1 is On the Right track - and includes relay work
Number 2 is Early on track machines - including Long welded rail and Morris tracklayers etc
Number 3 is Civil Engineering - Bridges Junctions etc

[mick b]

Hi
Have a look here there is my ex NER Breakdowen Crane and Mess and Tool vans about page 2 or 3


http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=547

Some good questions I am afraid i dont know the answers to most .
I have never seen a designated Breakdown Brake Van only Ballast Version these were Dark Oxford Blue. At a guess a normal Brake Van would be ok of any version at hand will be ok.
Pale Blue versions appear to be very rare. Oxford Blue could fade to a lght shade over a number of years.
Tatlow has pictures of old coaches in use in the original volume.
most companies built purpose built Mess and Tool vans as well.
I have the new Vol2 ex NER etc stock, sadly it has poor coverage of breakdown vehicles, there a are no cranes at all which is a shame. Otherwise a recomended book.

Mick