Zenith Works 4mm. H&BR Class A/ LNER Q10 Instructions needed

[mick b]

As per the title heading has anyone got a copy of the instructions for this old kit . I have just bought a kit without instructions or castings .Any information most welcome !!

Thanks for reading .


Mick

[Mersey508138]

I must admit I am never known of an LNER Q10 locomotive, I know they had the Q6 0-8-0s but I have never heard of the Q10 so I will be interested to see how this progresses.

[jwealleans]

Rob (Bergin) will be your man, he built one years ago. I've not come across the kit ever again or I'd have snapped it up myself

[Atlantic 3279]

For avoidance of doubt Mick:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1126&p=33400&hilit=q10#p33400

[mick b]

I have a outstanding PM on here to Rob already sent about 3 weeks ago . I have no idea how often Rob is on this Forum , hence a message on the public part in case anyone else has any info on this elusive kit!!.

Sadly all of Robs photos of the Q10 build are missing from his posts . Is there any way of getting them back for viewing Please?


Thanks for the replies.

[mick b]

Further information sought re building this actual kit's chassis in case I never find a copy the original instructions .

The etched chassis has all the cut outs for drivers already etched out. This is something I have always managed to avoid on all my previous kitbuilds in OO gauge !!.

What is the best way to method/fitting Hornblocks ( and best type to use) to this chassis?, any suggestions please?

There are no compensating beams on the etch . As it is a 0-8-0 I was thinking of soldering the Hornblocks for the rear drivers solid and fitting a High Level gearbox and motor to the same axle ?. What to do with the other 3 axles/Hornblocks is the issue with that idea ??

Any suggestions ? Thanks.

[Atlantic 3279]

Suggestions only, as I don't consider myself entitled to "recommend" a method:

1. If you'd be happy with a rigid chassis just solder usual bearings into small squares of brass sheet and then use the axles (jig axles if available), two supporting straight edges, and coupling rods to position them prior to soldering the squares to the inside faces of the main frames.

2. For a flexible system put the first two axles under a centre-pivoted longitudinal rocking beam (getting in the way of modelling any valve gear of course) and use a simple springy wire (pair?) over the third axle.

Now everybody with other ideas can shoot mine down in flames. Please feel free.

[mick b]

No Flames!!

Is it possible to simply solder Hornblocks into all the slots, using axle jigs and the coupling rods to line them all up at the same time ? . If yes ?, it would be much easier as I have no interest in bouncy axles .

A strange choice from the designer to have them etched out, as the chassis only has OO Frames on the etch as well!!.

Thoughts please .

Thanks Graeme.

[jwealleans]

I'm sure 've seen etched blanking plates to do just what you suggest, Mick, using a jig to get them all in line. Can't remember who produced them now.

As you say, an odd choice. I gather the designer is no longer with us so we can't ask why.

[mick b]

I'm sure 've seen etched blanking plates to do just what you suggest, Mick, using a jig to get them all in line. Can't remember who produced them now.

As you say, an odd choice. I gather the designer is no longer with us so we can't ask why.

I have tried a internet search with zero results re Blanking plates. I have never ever seen anything like that or what they might actually list them as ?

thanks

[john coffin]

Given that I have not ever posted some of my modelling on this site, I am loathe to enter the fray. However having been trained as an engineer, been a woodworker for years, and made and used many simple jigs, I thought I could suggest a KISS solution(keep it simple stupid)

Given that you are working in 00, i would suggest that you try and find some scrap wood. 18mm mdf is fine, although the moisture resistant stuff is better. It needs only to be about 6-8 inches long and about 1-2 inches tall. That should be wide enough to overlap the assembled chassis.
A couple of pieces of thinner wood preferably 12 mm ply about 3 inches tall and also 6-8 inches long should then be screwed and glued one on each side. Try to ensure that they are flat and parallel to each other. The height depends on the distance from the top of the chassis to the top of the rear axle. You want them to be just a little above the base of the "u" shaped platform you have just created. This allows you to shim the chassis later.

Now you want 4 6 inch long pieces of preferably stainless steel 1/8th rod. Whilst others have suggested axle jigs, in my experience they are generally to short.
Put the first stainless piece through the rear chassis holes, and then put the whole chassis on your cheap and nasty jig. see how much packing you need under the chassis to make it firm.
Next stage is to buy some suitable hornblocks, obviously, I would suggest the LRM ones, but there are I am sure others available. you will obviously need two sets, since generally they are made for 0-6-0's. At the same time buy a couple of sets of axle jigs ( I know what I said above!)
Given the length of wheelbase, and the basic weight of the loco, castings are better for the hornblocks than blanking plates.

Now comes the tricky bit. If all the axles need axleboxes, then you need to determine the centre line of the rear one from the top of the frames. This is the really important axle, the balance of the loco comes from that. Personally, I would draw a line from front to rear of the frame using this dimension, a combination square is useful for this. I would now use 4 axle jigs and get the overall dimension of the wheelbase, and then drill two holes in another longish piece of wood. This would allow you to lay out the front and rear axles using the stainless steel rods. Since you are not going to have a springy chassis, solder the rods together solidly. Use a reamer to get them to a suitable fit on the stainless rods 1/8th. Now you will need a spirit level to ensure that things end up straight and level.
Now the fun part. get the slide one piece of stainless through one side of the frame, then a hornblock, slide through a bit more, add the complete connecting rod, then another hornblock, then slide through other frame. Do the same at the front end. Drop the frame in your cradle, and set it up square and level. Do this by adding shims under the frame until the front and rear axle are level with each other sideways and lengthways. You can use card, or bits of metal as the shims. it doesn't matter how thick they are just that they are the same front to rear. The front to rear dimension is more important that the middle axles and sets things up properly. Tack solder the hornblocks front and rear. Then see if it runs easily on track with no wobbling. If you are happy, then take it back to the jig and run a bead of solder all the way round. Don't forget to solder one front and one rear hornblock to ensure no heat stretch. Test again, then use the same technique for the middle two axles.

Hell, this written description is more complex than the actual procedure, and costs almost no money. You can get more complex depending on the tools you have, but I think this way is cheaper and more effective than one of the commercially available chassis jigs.

You might have to shim each side separately, but that is pretty easy.

HTH
Paul

[Pebbles]

Perseverance used to do something similar for use with their hornblock system. This enabled using a fixed axle in chassis such as Alan Gibson's where cut outs for hornblocks had already been made. Arthur Kimber's Q5 uses either a sprung system or twin beams on the rear two axles and a single beam on the leading two.

[Atlantic 3279]

I agree that truly straight rods of much greater length than normal axles or commercial jig axles are an even better means of carrying the coupling rods when setting the bearing positions, as they give you much more space to check squareness, and a very good idea by eye of whether things are square before you even reach for your engineer’s square...