I am gradually building Stock in 7mm for a intended layout in the Whitby area, and I am finding information on Coaching stock not to readily available. My chosen period is about 1957 and I want to make up a couple of local trains and a excusion. Obviously Thompson and Gresely non corridor stock would have been most common, but what about pre-grouping stock NER, GNR, NBR etc whould this have survived that long and in what liverey? What years periods did liveries change from teak to crimson to blood custard?
I have a copy of Nick Camplings book but that has mainly drawings and not a lot of information, Micheal Harris book has evaded me so far and the last copy I could find was for sale at £75
Are there any other good books/articals that are recomended?
There was a useful article in Steam Days September 2007 - "Steam Days at Whitby"
A 1958 photo shows an L1 on the Whitby to Middlesboro with what appears to be a couple of Thompsons (includng a brake third) in crimson and a Gresley in blood and custard. Another shows what appears to be a mixture of Thompsons and Mk1s in crimson. A July 1957 photo has what looks like a complete train of Gresleys in blood and custard coming in from York
I'm not really an expert but from what I can see most of the local stuff for the 1957-58 period seems to have been Thompson or BR suburban in crimson, with trains from further afield being Gresleys in blood and custard.
As to pre-grouping stuff there is a photo dated to 1952 or 1953 showing some ancient stuff, including at least one clerestory in what I take to be the brown livery (or crimson?) which the LNER used when it wasn't worth doing properly varnished teak.
Stuart
A fool is a person who makes false conclusions from right principles; whereas a madman, on the contrary, draws right conclusions from wrong principles [Encyclopedia Britannica 1797]
I believe quite a lot of NER stock survived in daily use in the Ex-NER region into the 1960's even. The best online photograph of a whitby train online that I can find is here: http://www.davidheyscollection.com/user ... whitby.jpg
Clearly there are examples of Thompson NC's, Gresley NC's, and also NER types in that picture! The Gresley corridor coaches in use on these sort of trains are probably of early LNER design (commonly identifiable by their tie-rod underframes rather than later truss-rods.)
re the livery. At grouping, BR introduced a policy of only repairing and repainting inherited stock which would see service for more than 5 years. Those expected to be scrapped within this time remained in LNER brown and were simply re-numbered (early-on in this was done in the LNER serif style: later on in the new BR gill-sans lettering). Brown coaches seem to have lasted into the mid 1950's, but probably not much later.
In 1948 Plain carmine was introduced on non-corridor stock as soon as they went for overhaul and it was judged that the coaches would remain in use for a considerable time. Carmine and Cream was introduced on corridor stock at the same time. Judging by colour pictures, by the late 50's, anything pre-nationalisation formely painted in brown would have been 'weeded' out, leaving a pure Carmine fleet. It'd be a much harder thing to guess at even if you were modelling 1955 I think. I must admit I don't know much about how quickly Maroon was introduced after the 1956 change in policy, but someone should tell you how many- if any- maroon vehicles you can have on your layout!
The latest book on the NYMR.
An Illustrated History of the NYMR by its GM P Benham does have a lot of historic photos covering the history of the line. Should be available on the website.
OPC and about £19.50
Thank you very much for your help and replies. Bryan - I have a copy of Philip Benham's book and quite a few others but most pictures are B/W, which is why I'm struggeling whith regards to livery, and I'm also just learning how to distinguish the various carriages.
As some people are interested, I shall expand a little, the layout will be a "might have been" and is based on the presumption that the stub of the origninal route to Beckhole maintained a regular passenger service until its closure in 1957, goods service lost in 1961 and track lifted. I would prefer to model a actual location but in 7mm this takes up great space so the exageration of the Beckhole branch is the best compromise.(it kept a passenger service to a wooden halt until the first world war).That aside I would like to keep everything as acurate as possible and welcome any thoughts/criticisums.
There used to be a local Whitby Goathland service which was usually two coaches which transposes to a Beckhole service quite well, which with the help from your posts I have decided on 2Xtwo coach sets as follows.
Thompson Lavotory Composite + NER Brake third
Gresley Brake third + Thompson Composite Brake
As I have mentioned I would also like to include a excusion train. I would love to use Gresley corridor stock but as the station will only be able to accommodate 4 coaches I don't think this would be realistic and will have to settle for more non corridor I guess.
What about parcels traffic? on such a small branch would this have just been put in the Guards compartment or would extra NPCS have been used?
If you have been botherd to read this far, and not died of boredom, please tell me your thoughts.
As my Grandmother lived in Commondale and we lived in Middlesbrough, my early childhood memories of the Whitby line are of Maroon, I think, none corridor steam hauled stock with wonderful prints in each compartment. The usual engine type being a slab sided tank which I believe was built for the line???? More informed forumers will be able to give details on I'm sure.
The day they replaced the steam service with DMUs was roundly cursed by the family, and they were always refered to as noisy, smelly, glorified buses! We also missed the engine running round the train at Battersby. Seeing the driver walk down the train (or down the platform if dry) was not as much fun for a small child, me.
byegad wrote:As my Grandmother lived in Commondale and we lived in Middlesbrough, my early childhood memories of the Whitby line are of Maroon, I think, none corridor steam hauled stock with wonderful prints in each compartment. The usual engine type being a slab sided tank which I believe was built for the line???? More informed forumers will be able to give details on I'm sure.
Yes thats right, the Class W 4-6-0 tanks (later LNER A6,http://www.lner.info/locos/A/a6.shtml) were built specifically for the line but were displaced in the late 1930s as the A8s proved just as good if not slightly better at hauling the heavy costal trains.
byegad wrote:The day they replaced the steam service with DMUs was roundly cursed by the family, and they were always refered to as noisy, smelly, glorified buses! We also missed the engine running round the train at Battersby. Seeing the driver walk down the train (or down the platform if dry) was not as much fun for a small child, me.
Yes diesels were not popular, are still called noisey, smelly and gloridied busses but with our rose tinteds on, steam days were the best. However diesels were cleaner and cheaper to run and from an operating point of view a damn sight easier too (No 4 o' clock starts to prep the unit ).
That said I would rather Guard a train of Mark 1's or teaks with an A4, Q6 or BR standard any day of the week even though they do involve more hard work than a DMU.
). 