The LNER Encyclopedia

Not much change, and they can't say when the boiler is to be lifted, 'How long's a piece of string?'
The museum employs 7 full time engineers, who are paid to work there (or they might pay the museum) and on Tueday nights, they have volunteer nights where people do some of the less difficult jobs, which without them, the engineers couldn't operate as quickly.

You should volunteer for the volunteer night

Any idea what happened to the second tender? I'm on the look out for some photos from above. I know it was modified to take more water, and it wouldn't have been much good with coal in it, unless it was simply for display.


Richard

I've asked about the second tender on here, I think it just took water, but on the run in Austrailia, it took both tenders and 7 tanks of water, with 7 crew changes to do the world record run!

We all complain something wicked about Flying Scotsman in one way or another, look at it another way....you can see it, the bids during the sale, in a sealed bid auction, on the 1st April 2004 were;
Austrailia 2
America 2
Japan 2
UK 1

and one of the Japan bids was less than £100,000 short of the NRM bid

4472 Beyond the Black Stump. (The Black Stump is the mythical edge of civilisation in Australia)

During her visit to Australia I do not recall seeing Scotsman with a second tender. In "Flying Scotsman On Tour Australia" (Chapmans 1990), it is noted"As the stark beauty of the Flinders Range faded into the dustance, 4472, hampered now by the necessity of pulling a GM diesel [loco], two crew cars and a power car in case of breakdown, for a total of 735 tons, glided inexorably into the land 'beyond the black stump', - land into which even Australian Aborigines rarely venture.".

After the run to Broken Hill, thence to Alice Springs and finally across the Nullabor Plain to Perth the photographs show only one tender, followed by two passenger coaches and then a "rubber bladder" water tank on a flat wagon.

After this corssing Scotsman was reunited with 4079 Pendennis Castle and their are photograhps of the two magnificent engines double heading a train in Perth. 4079 had a water gin (a large 2 tank water carrier) during her time in Australia (it didnt go back to the UK in 2000 when she went to Didcot) but in none of these shots os Scotsman shown with a second tender.

John

I guess it was/in storage somewhere along with the spare A3 boiler.


Yes I've heard the express "Beyond the Black Stump" - I've even read the Nevil Shute book of the same title in the past year or two.


Richard

Someone keeps contacting me through my 4472 site, and yesterday asked where the tender was, I said 'I am trying to find out where the second tender is, but if you mean the actual tender, it is right behind Scotsman in the workshop at the museum.'

he comes back today with 'The Second tender that Scotsman had went to A4 Pacific Union Of South Africa.' ....wrong! it CAME FROM Union of South Africa.

From http://www.tanfield-railway.co.uk/latest_news.html

Flying Scotsman Tender (24th August 1999)

On the 24'th August the body of the original corridor tender that was converted to be Flying Scotsmans second tender and used to carry extra water was moved from the Tanfield Railway where it has been for over 4 years. The body was moved to Southall by Flying Scotsman Enterprises so that they can recover usable parts for use with the new water carrier that they are building for Flying Scotsman. The tender body is severely wasted and is beyond practical repair.

The tender No 5332 was used behind 60034 during the 1948 exchanges and can be instantly recognized as it was cut away to allow the water columns in Euston station to be used. It finished in normal service behind 60009 Union of South Africa before being acquired for further use with Flying Scotsman

The second tender was sold to the owner of Bittern by the previous owners of Scotsman. It wasn't included when the NRM bought 4472.

And the Bittern mob are making a second water carrying tender for her are they not???

jdtoronto wrote:4472 Beyond the Black Stump. (The Black Stump is the mythical edge of civilisation in Australia)

During her visit to Australia I do not recall seeing Scotsman with a second tender. In "Flying Scotsman On Tour Australia" (Chapmans 1990), it is noted"As the stark beauty of the Flinders Range faded into the dustance, 4472, hampered now by the necessity of pulling a GM diesel [loco], two crew cars and a power car in case of breakdown, for a total of 735 tons, glided inexorably into the land 'beyond the black stump', - land into which even Australian Aborigines rarely venture.".

After the run to Broken Hill, thence to Alice Springs and finally across the Nullabor Plain to Perth the photographs show only one tender, followed by two passenger coaches and then a "rubber bladder" water tank on a flat wagon.

After this corssing Scotsman was reunited with 4079 Pendennis Castle and their are photograhps of the two magnificent engines double heading a train in Perth. 4079 had a water gin (a large 2 tank water carrier) during her time in Australia (it didnt go back to the UK in 2000 when she went to Didcot) but in none of these shots os Scotsman shown with a second tender.

John

your right john scotsman didnt have a second tendor ,the full story of the run told by roland kennington scotsmans CME 1985-2004 can be found in this months heritage railway.

a quote from said magazine

we started the journey with 12 tons of coal and 26,000 gallons of water.two tons of coal were carried in sacks in the corridor and were fed to the footplate crew as space appeared on the shovelling plate.

the water was carried in three 'water gins' each of 7000 gallons capacity. the water in the gins was pumped to the tender from the rear of the third gin by a man in the train,who operated a pump by radio request from the footplate .

Matt wrote:And the Bittern mob are making a second water carrying tender for her are they not???

Wrong Bitterns Second Tender was Scotsman's second tender. I think they had to rebuild the water tank.

sir-nigel wrote: your right john scotsman didnt have a second tendor ,the full story of the run told by roland kennington scotsmans CME 1985-2004 can be found in this months heritage railway.

a quote from said magazine

we started the journey with 12 tons of coal and 26,000 gallons of water.two tons of coal were carried in sacks in the corridor and were fed to the footplate crew as space appeared on the shovelling plate.

the water was carried in three 'water gins' each of 7000 gallons capacity. the water in the gins was pumped to the tender from the rear of the third gin by a man in the train,who operated a pump by radio request from the footplate .

I often look at Heritage Railway but rarely buy it, sounds like this is one wrth having for the collection!

John

Sorry, I thought 4472 had the 2 tenders in Austrailia...oops

On another note, a while back I posted a thread in the LNER Locomotives section, entitled Scotsman's Second Tender and asked if anyone knew about it.

How comes then, when Richard mentions it, and I follow up asking also, mentioning I'd already asked alse where, why then does the information come out of the wood work?

Hmmmm?

It is easy to miss new posts - especially if you don't check every day, or you don't have your browser set to log in automatically.

As for my question. Side photos are easy enough to find. The best I've found for overhead photos is Rev. W. Awdry's treatise on LNER & LMS tenders entitled "Enterprising Engines".
As illustrations go, this is one of the better books - good enough to tell that Gordon is an A1 in contrast to Flying Scotsman which is clearly drawn as an A3. The coal area on the second tender is drawn as a curved black top.


Richard