The LNER Encyclopedia

One of my recently scanned 35mm slides, the photograph was taken during an outing up and down the line in the Autumn of 1983.
Does anyone know when this box closed or indeed if any part of the equipment survived?

ID

Presumably, it remained open until 2005 when the junction was removed after the Allington curve was brought into use?

I have no idea what happened to the box itself.

I believe it would be good if at least the lever frame was saved as I think it was one of the relatively few made by the Gloucester C&W Co., and that it was probably the last example in normal service.

This website http://www.signalbox.org/sectionc.php?year=2005 (scroll down the page) gives the closure date as 30 September 2005.

Rather worryingly, this site http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/423285 suggests the box was 'demolished' later the same year.

StevieG wrote:I believe it would be good if at least the lever frame was saved as I think it was one of the relatively few made by the Gloucester C&W Co., and that it was probably the last example in normal service.

I understood the same information. When time permits i'll post a couple of pictures of the frame.

strang steel wrote:This website http://www.signalbox.org/sectionc.php?year=2005 (scroll down the page) gives the closure date as 30 September 2005.

Rather worryingly, this site http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/423285 suggests the box was 'demolished' later the same year.

I don't have the exact date it was demolished, though it did disappear within a week of closure. A Signal Passed at Danger incident occurred on the last day, but the investigation continued into the next day...which caused some consternation as the signals affected were all removed on the night of the 30th.

As i understand it the NRM had first refusal on the frame, though i have no information what happened to it.

Andy@34F wrote:

StevieG wrote:I believe it would be good if at least the lever frame was saved as I think it was one of the relatively few made by the Gloucester C&W Co., and that it was probably the last example in normal service.

I understood the same information. When time permits i'll post a couple of pictures of the frame.

strang steel wrote:This website http://www.signalbox.org/sectionc.php?year=2005 (scroll down the page) gives the closure date as 30 September 2005.

Rather worryingly, this site http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/423285 suggests the box was 'demolished' later the same year.

I don't have the exact date it was demolished, though it did disappear within a week of closure. A Signal Passed at Danger incident occurred on the last day, but the investigation continued into the next day...which caused some consternation as the signals affected were all removed on the night of the 30th.

As i understand it the NRM had first refusal on the frame, though i have no information what happened to it.

Thanks for the additional info. Andy.

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I worked on the accidents section at a division around 1970. I suspected that few SPDs (that's what we called them then) got reported; those that did generate a mishap form usually stated the over-run as 'a few yards' or 'half a coach' and it was generally put down to experience; the rest were presumably suppressed by mutual agreement driver/signalman on the basis no good would come of it. The usual culprits were disc braked emu, which suffered amazing brake fade after the speed had dropped to about 30. Not really an SPD to start with, but on one particular occasion such a stopping train not only passed beyond the end of the platform but also several MAS signals beyond (all showing one of the proceed aspects, so not an SPD but something that I can't recall the name for). The driver then reversed back to the platform. It was not until this incident that we realised MAS signals also work backwards; a following train approached a signal that's indications became more restricted as the driver looked at it and changed from single yellow to red pretty much in front of him. It was when the driver of the latter train owned up to an SPD but was pretty irritated by the signal's behaviour in mitigation that the story emerged.
Other ways that SPDs occur come from personal experience; a down train booked in to the platform at Rugby would be presented with a red aspect until about an engine's length away, then the signal would change to green with feathers (approach control). I've been on those trains leaning out when we've been doing 60 very close towards a red signal. Better to look out see it stay red and know how you're gonna die??? but it always DID clear.
And on a class 1 following a poorly dmu. Both trains doing a steady 55-60. Initially, as we approached each single yellow it changed to double. Then it got to red changing to single yellow. Then the red didn't change. That's why I knew it was a poorly dmu in front; it failed between signals and we were quite close to it when we stopped. I knew nothing...

Micky wrote:Yeah it doesn't surprise me SPADS nowdays are treated by Network Rail all most as a MAJOR INCIDENT in thereselves compared to the good old days when if a signalman 'wrong routed' a train the train would stop (hopefully?) at the signal cleared for the wrong route and whistle or blow up afterwhich the signal would be replaced to danger and usually after 2 or 3 minutes .... the route would be re-set for the correct route and the signal would be cleared end of story.

Was that the sort if incident at Barkston East which Andy@34F is referring to?
I'd say that the traditional thing that SPD/SPAD used to mean was the worst sort of SPAD; still referred to these days (I think) as a Category 'A' SPAD; where the train fails to stop on the approach side of a signal that's been at 'Danger' throughout the train's approach, and for which any/all cautionary signal indications which should precede it were correctly displayed.
Surely a 'wrong-routeing' isn't a SPAD unless a train passes a red/'Danger' without authority.

1H was 2E wrote: " I worked on the accidents section at a division around 1970. .... "
" .... Not really an SPD to start with, but on one particular occasion such a stopping train not only passed beyond the end of the platform but also several MAS signals beyond (all showing one of the proceed aspects, so not an SPD but something that I can't recall the name for). .... "

- Well if none of the signals thus passed was at 'Danger', just a 'Station overrun'? Or a 'Fail to stop', I should think.

1H was 2E wrote: " .... Other ways that SPDs occur come from personal experience; a down train booked in to the platform at Rugby would be presented with a red aspect until about an engine's length away, then the signal would change to green with feathers (approach control). I've been on those trains leaning out when we've been doing 60 very close towards a red signal. Better to look out see it stay red and know how you're gonna die??? but it always DID clear. .... " " .... And on a class 1 following a poorly dmu. Both trains doing a steady 55-60. Initially, as we approached each single yellow it changed to double. Then it got to red changing to single yellow. Then the red didn't change. .... "

Both classic cases of 'Anticipation' of a signal clearing from 'Danger', but then it doesn't.

1H was 2E wrote:but on one particular occasion such a stopping train not only passed beyond the end of the platform but also several MAS signals beyond (all showing one of the proceed aspects, so not an SPD but something that I can't recall the name for). The driver then reversed back to the platform. It was not until this incident that we realised MAS signals also work backwards

Isn't that called a 'station overrun'? Drivers 'reversing' trains back into stations is a huge 'no no' on the railway(I'm assuming that was the case in the good old days, as it's certainly the case now!), unless of course the driver has contacted the controlling signalbox and obtained permission, in which case he would then change ends and drive the train/loco 'forwards' or with loco hauled stock 'set back'. I recall one driver being demoted to guard for changing ends and drawing his train back into a station after an overrun without contacting the box first, all the more stupid as it was over a CCTV controlled level crossing, and the controlling signaller saw his every move....
MAS signalling works on the 'track circuit block' principle(modern equivalents using axle counters use the same principles, but with a set of axle counters at the start and end of each 'track circuit'), so the movement of a train back into a station past a MAS signal would make that train occupy the previous track circuit and automatically put the previous signal back to danger as the section is occupied by a train.

Thanks for the comments, StevieG. I've just remembered; it was TSI for Train Stopping Irregularity. Then-common incidents and their acronyms were Tail Lamp out; Door Open; Hot Box - presumably not experienced much now; do signallers still fill in Accident Forms, Micky? Presumably a lot is now straight on to TRUST, which has its own acronyms. In those days, BR ran on acronyms. And wandering far from 'Barkston E J' I know, a later job was on train surveys, where someone rustled up 3 letter acronyms for stations to make recording journey details on a clip board when standing on a rough riding coach easier. They were neither logical nor thought through (e.g. NOR is neither Northampton nor Norwich but the first place starting Nor that was involved); but, 44 years later, the high-tech National Rail Enquiry System uses them. Bizarre.

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StevieG wrote:

Micky wrote:Yeah it doesn't surprise me SPADS nowdays are treated by Network Rail all most as a MAJOR INCIDENT in thereselves compared to the good old days when if a signalman 'wrong routed' a train the train would stop (hopefully?) at the signal cleared for the wrong route and whistle or blow up afterwhich the signal would be replaced to danger and usually after 2 or 3 minutes .... the route would be re-set for the correct route and the signal would be cleared end of story.

Was that the sort if incident at Barkston East which Andy@34F is referring to?

The incident at Barkston East involved a signalman not complying with the rules. The current Rule Book states:

4.5
Clearing a stop signal when the next signal is at danger
If you cannot clear a stop signal, you must not clear any associated signals on the approach to it until the train has stopped or nearly stopped at each signal in turn.
You do not need to apply this instruction if the stop signal on the approach to the stop signal at danger is a colour light that can show a yellow aspect, and:
• is controlled by the occupation of a berth track circuit, or
• requires the line to be clear up to and including the overlap track circuit of the signal at danger

To the best of my knowledge this rule hasn't changed for many years. Unfortunately the signalman on duty didn't comply with it. The distant signal was defective, and had been for about a week, and was being maintained at Caution. However the signalman cleared the Home board for a train even though the Section signal was locked at Danger by a preceeding train (still in section towards Ancaster). The driver on seeing the Home board cleared started to accelerate his train; however his view of the Section signal was obscured around a blind bend. By the time he saw the signal at Danger and reacted the train had passed the signal.

As promised a couple of shots of the frame. I loved working 'the East'. Being out of sight you didn't get bothered much...the mice being the most regular visitors. I'm glad i had chance to work the box before closure.