The LNER Encyclopedia

Does anyone have information or records for 9F passenger (or freight) workings (GN) during the late 1950's.
This one is at Stoke (Summer 1958). Picture credit TG Hepburn

Thank you in anticipation

ID

Ay up!

You knoooooooooow what I like!!!

Hi BB,

Saw hundreds on the GC, windcutters, early 1960's, south of Nottingham (Ruddington).
Never saw one on any visit to the GN main line, so intrigued by this class on passenger.
The little wheels must have whizzed round??

ID

Use of the 9Fs is mentioned in Top Shed, though probably not in the detail you're looking for.

Have you seen these two articles:

BR Standard ‘9F’ 2-10-0s on the Great Northern Section of the Eastern Region by Chris Andrews in Steam Days No.267, November 2011, pages 659-671

New Findings On The Passenger '9Fs' by David Percival in Steam World Issue 256, October 2008 pages 22-26

I don't have them to hand but I'm sure they cover the late 1950s onward.

...and hot off the press there's a photo (not dated, but it will be 1960s not '50s) of a 9F on the Cliffe-Uddingston cement train at Werrington Junction on page 38 of the current (March) Steam World.

As I recall, 9Fs weren't that uncommon on the GN main line. They weren't the prettiest sight at speed, more than the requisite huffing and clanking over 50 mph. Mind you, I never was a fan of 'standard' classes - too dyed-in-the-wool LNER, 'ol me.

Thanks Gents,

You have put me on the right trail.

A visit to my local bookshop is on the cards I think...........
Will have to calculate the RPM at "I presume" max 60 mph on these trips?
I don't suppose too many timed logs were recorded as I assume these were relief passenger workings?

ID

Iron Duke,
there was one occassion when a 9f was reported to have touched around 90mph on a Southbound passenger working and word reached the "Ivory Towers" and a message was sent out restricting their use at such speeds.More actual details escape me,as the old brain matter is not what it was however I do know the above is accurate.Top Shed is a good reference quoting 92186 being used on a Saturday lunchtime working.In fact in the 50's and early 60's Kings Cross station on a Saturday lunch time was always a place where passenger trains would wait in the platform for ages past their departure time for a Loco,and control would grab anything that moved,often from incoming Pigeon Trains to send as far as Grantham at least.We regularlly travelled at this time in those years to visit relations in Grantham after my late Father had finished his morning shift at Neasden shed.
Regards,Derek.

Were 9Fs not regular passenger loco's on The Somerset and Dorset

That looks like HIGH DYKE rather then Stoke to me.

9Fs (or Spaceships as they were sometimes called) always looked a bit 'out of place' on the G.N. they were better suited to the London Midland or Western Regions except maybe for the North Eastern handful at Tyne Dock shed.

Boris wrote:Were 9Fs not regular passenger loco's on The Somerset and Dorset

Yes they were.

Bath Green Park had 4 for the Summer service in 1960, '61 and '62 plus odd examples in '63 and '64. They were diagrammed to work the heaviest trains (as far as was possible) and had a limit if 10 bogies over the Mendips, unassisted. The 7Fs were allowed 9, Class 5s and Bullied Light Pacifics 8. They could not work the winter services due to a lack of steam heating.

Incidentally, they were booked for just one freight turn per day. An overnight fitted freight left Bath at about 4am and the engine that worked back with the Pines took this south.

I once read (I forget where, sadly) that it has been calculated that, during one of their 90mph dashes, a 9F's pistons were travelling faster than the speed of sound and, if Mallard's pistons had been travelling that fast, she'd have done over 135mph.

Thanks for all of this, fascinating.

You are correct Micky, the full caption in the photograph by TG Hepburn is as follows:-

The only BR standard steam locomotives seen in any great numbers on the GN mainline were the 9F 2-10-0s.
Here No 92179 leaves Stoke tunnel with a summer Saturday Kings Cross - Leeds relief in 1958.

I do recognise the sidings at High Dyke on the right with the top face of Stoke tunnel's northern portal just peeking over the third carriage.
Shed plate looks like 35A with SC underneath?

ID

Iron Duke wrote:You are correct Micky, the full caption in the photograph by TG Hepburn is as follows:-

The only BR standard steam locomotives seen in any great numbers on the GN mainline were the 9F 2-10-0s.
Here No 92179 leaves Stoke tunnel with a summer Saturday Kings Cross - Leeds relief in 1958.

I do recognise the sidings at High Dyke on the right with the top face of Stoke tunnel's northern portal just peeking over the third carriage.
Shed plate looks like 35A with SC underneath?

ID

Yes i guess that you would have recognised that it was taken at High Dyke Iron Duke i just fancied writing something with regards to the location and the loco and Stoke tunnel is in the background.

The RCTS British Railways Standard Steam Locomotives vol.4 is the book you want for details of spaceship passenger workings. There is a table of them by loco and some timing logs too.

The book (one of the best in the series) has the freight workings they operated outlined in some detail too.

< It has been calculated that, during one of their 90mph dashes, a 9F's pistons were travelling faster than the speed of sound and, if Mallard's pistons had been travelling that fast, she'd have done over 135mph. >

At 90mph, the wheels of a 9F are doing about 504 rpm.

The speed of sound bit above is completely wrong; the Mallard bit is about right - I make it just over 129 mph.