The LNER Encyclopedia

Another couple of interesting pics, unfortunately permanently stuck down in the old scrapbook.
Photographer and year unknown, but obviously Grantham North & South.
North pic just says 60044 & 60106. South pic says 60025 & 60047.
Any ideas on dates, or other information to add?

It must be post 1959/60 as both A3s have the German style of deflectors. I'm abroad with work so don't have my books with me, but my guess is its close to that time because of the L1 on the South shot, and I think they moved from Grantham as engine changes diminished and the Nottingham/Derby services moved over to DMUs.

Interesting shots though, I guess the A4 on the South shot has come off a York or Newcastle working, as by this time most other services were worked straight through, Leeds/Bradford and Hull workings being direct or changing engines at Doncaster.

I'll look at my books when I get home to see if I can shed any further light rather than using my dodgy memory!

Ian

If anyone knows the date of the removal of the platform gas lamps, then the top photo could be dated quite accurately because it appears that particular transition was underway at that time. There are a mixture of gas and electric on the up platform, but the gas lamps still prevail on the down.

Ok, the three A3s were all based at Grantham up to the end of 1960, whilst 60025 was a KX engine then. the last of the three to be re-built was 60047 and it re-entered traffic in July 1959.

I cannot read the number of the L1 (can you see it on the photo?). The earliest of these came in 1958, but some did not arrive until 1960; so if you can identify this it might give another "later" date.

My guess is still that these are York/Newcastle workings, as these were probaly the only ones that really changed engines at Grantham after the major recast of the timetables in 1958, and the advent of many through workings.

Maybe Roy34F can shed some light on this, and the station lamps.

I havent got access to my WTTs, but neither workings seem to be "named" trains, which may also be able to help in the identifcation. I note that the colour light signal near the Yard Signal Box is in situ, but I am not sure when that was installed.

Ian

Ok, Ive looked through the Returning to Grantham posts (well the firstfew pages); and I think the time can be narrowed down to somewhere between June 1962 and April 1963, as photos show the old lamps in place in a June 1962 photo; and replaced by in a April 1963 photo.... Given the lighting, maybe its mid-late Summer, 1962

Further investigation of John's photos may help more....

Ian

You should have been a detective Ian.........

Thanks for this information, much appreciated.

The date of the second picture is after July 1961 as that is when 60106 Flying Fox received German Smoke Deflectors.60044 Melton got hers in August 1961and 60047 Donavon got hers a month earlier.Therefore the first photo was taken after August 1961.
Regards,Derek.

PS. Inspector Coulson will be on the case I bet.

Iron Duke wrote:You should have been a detective Ian.........

Thanks for this information, much appreciated.

I am getting more interested in the research element for my railway than is good for me! I didn't have access to my Yeadons, but John's Return to Grantham posts have so much in them I realised I should look there!

Have you got anymore shots like these at Grantham, and can you ID the L1?

Ian

I agree, Grantham (along with Ruddington Notts) is one of my favourite research projects and I have gathered a large quantity of material over the last 25 years. These two however are taken from a few family "trains" scrapbooks containing unidentified locos & locations (photographers unknown). I have put some of these on this site with the hope of getting some "meat on the bone" as they say and the results from forum members has been amazing. I am working my way through the books at present and will look to see if there are others, but from memory I don't think so.
Cannot seem to find anything showing Ruddington though.........

If anyone has similar shots perhaps a "Second return to Grantham" could be started - any offers?

I am slowly building up my archive of material too, with a growing collection of WTTs, but a shortage of Carriage Working documents (they are very rare); and a shortage if information on freight workings on the Great Northern section of the ECML is proving to be frustrating.

Material is also short on engine changes at Grantham, it's all a bit of guesswork, although Tommy Knox has been very helpful in supplying spotting notes to get some idea of the Pacifica and V2s.

I have the bug!

Ian

Very interesting photos,and as you mention me Ian,thought I'd better reply.I can't add anything to whats been said I'm afraid,and am amazed at the detective work you guys do.Derek saying they must be post Aug.'61 with the new smoke deflectors, reminded me of a trip on '47 one sunday to KX and back ; a story I have told before on these pages. She was recently "new out of plant" complete with smoke deflectors and speedo,and we flew down Stoke bank at over 100 mph (as far as the needle would go),after agreeing to try it with the driver.A day I will never forget.
Any way it looks like it must have been about Aug.'61.
Regards,Roy.

It's always a pleasure to see new photos of Grantham.

60129 GUY MANNERING wrote:PS. Inspector Coulson will be on the case I bet.

Hmm. In terms of dates m'Lord (or is it m'Duke...), from the evidence of my photos the north end shot cannot be before late June 1962 (when there was gas lighting only on plats 1&2 and 3&4), but it must be before 27/6/1963 (when there was electric lighting on both platforms). [I have photos taken on 16/8/62 and 18/4/63 (i.e. eight months apart) which show that the situation on plats 1&2 seen in your photo - i.e. electric lighting installed but the gas lamps still appearing to be intact - lasted through that period. On plats 3&4 16/8/62 shows gas only (ie the same as in your photo); 18/4/63 doesn't reveal the situation on 3&4.]

I'll have a check at the south end soon and see if anything can be deduced there.

The photographer will have been known to staff at Grantham because both shots must have been taken by ascending signal ladders; in the case of the south end shot this was well off the platform end. The signals used as the vantage points can be identified in several published photos. (Colin Walker was one photographer who must have been permitted to take pictures from non-public locations at Grantham including, sometimes, from elevated positions on signals; though this comment is not meant to imply that these pictures may have been taken by him.)

By the way, please feel free to post anything relevant on the Returning to Grantham pages if you wish - or start something afresh if you prefer.

Inspector Coulson, a little off topic but one Mr T Cuneo sat up a signal post at the south end of the Royal Border Bridge to get his sketches right for a BR poster featuring a V2 on goods.

52D wrote:Inspector Coulson, a little off topic but one Mr T Cuneo sat up a signal post at the south end of the Royal Border Bridge to get his sketches right for a BR poster featuring a V2 on goods.

Signal posts provided unique vantage points, and I think that photos taken (or paintings created) from them are a refreshing change from the regular diet of lineside shots, superb as many of those are. Such viewpoints were seldom used, for very good reason. You've got to hand it to the lampmen who walked out to some of the most exposed locations on our railways in weather such as we have at present and then climbed near-vertical ice encrusted ladders, week-in, week-out.

61070 wrote:

52D wrote:Inspector Coulson, a little off topic but one Mr T Cuneo sat up a signal post at the south end of the Royal Border Bridge to get his sketches right for a BR poster featuring a V2 on goods.

Signal posts provided unique vantage points, and I think that photos taken (or paintings created) from them are a refreshing change from the regular diet of lineside shots, superb as many of those are. Such viewpoints were seldom used, for very good reason. You've got to hand it to the lampmen who walked out to some of the most exposed locations on our railways in weather such as we have at present and then climbed near-vertical ice encrusted ladders, week-in, week-out.

Too true the signal Cuneo climbed was in a recess above about the sixth arch from the English side, i have seen loads of pics taken from the recess but Cuneo must have had a good head for heights climbing the signal post with a wind blowing from the North Sea.