The LNER Encyclopedia

I'm working on a piece at the moment and hoped someone could give me an idea as to the date (year) of this photo. It is at York and is of ex-GER saloon no. 63 (originally no. 3), then LNER no. 21870.

The last X3 was withdrawn in 1936, so before then. I don't have the Yeadon, but if 190 was the first of the two withdrawn then before 1931.

When was the saloon renumbered?

Any clues in the trackwork or signals which might date it?

It must have been after the coaches were all renumbered - say 1925 - and before withdrawal of the single - say 1931? No other clues I can see. There could be a 4-4-0 in the background in black which would put it post 1928 but one could not be sure.

jwealleans wrote:The last X3 was withdrawn in 1936, so before then. I don't have the Yeadon, but if 190 was the first of the two withdrawn then before 1931.

When was the saloon renumbered?

Any clues in the trackwork or signals which might date it?

190 was rebuilt from a 2-2-2- in 1849 and was withdrawn in at the end of 1936
Check this link -:
http://www.statelytrains.com/ger3.html# ... to_Day.jpg

That's the coach (and what I'm working on). I've cropped the picture a bit from my original, which is too big to post. The nearer loco - which looks like a 440 to me - looks like it is numbered 726 if anyone has that Yeadon? Thanks for your help so far.

Yeadon won't help, if as I suspect that is a loco of Mudland design. As seen on screen, it appears to have three letter blobs on the tender and a smokebox door numberplate, lending support to it being an LMS loco. If that's right then its a 3P 4-4-0, but I don't think that advances matters on the dating quest as it lame-ducked its feeble way into BR ownership.

Autocar Publicity wrote:That's the coach (and what I'm working on). I've cropped the picture a bit from my original, which is too big to post. The nearer loco - which looks like a 440 to me - looks like it is numbered 726 if anyone has that Yeadon? Thanks for your help so far.

GER directors at York cup.jpg

If it was transfered to NE in Jan1927 and 190 was put out of service in 1936 it cuts down your time frame to 9 years but looking at the condition of the engine etc it looks well looked after so I`d say it is more towards 1930.

I concur on the 4-4-0 being Midland. Is the buffer beam number on the K2 legible on the original? That may give a clue, even if it's only the dates Yeadon gives for it being in shops. Of course, it it spent all its' life in Scotland apart from a week at York in summer 1928 you're well away....

To my fading eyes it looks like 4676, but I have no idea if that would make any sense, because the LNER numbering system has always defeated me.

EDIT: Although, looking at it again it could be 4876.

4676 would be in the K2 series before the Thompson re-numberings.

jwealleans wrote:I concur on the 4-4-0 being Midland. Is the buffer beam number on the K2 legible on the original? That may give a clue, even if it's only the dates Yeadon gives for it being in shops.

Yes, looking again it does look like a 2P. To my eyes the K's buffer beam number looks like 4874... maybe 4876?? but it's not very sharp, even in the original and after some photoshopping...

Of course, it it spent all its' life in Scotland apart from a week at York in summer 1928 you're well away....

!

Does anyone know which Yeadon the X3s would be listed in? I might be able to check it at Embsay if they have that volume.

X3 is in Yeadon 32.

I think the date must be 1931 or 1932. 190 arrived at York from Heaton in March 1931.

It stayed there until withdrawal in 1936, excepting a spell in Hull BG in the winter of 1931-2.

Yeadon states that in late 1932 a large rectangular plate was added to the coal rails across the back of the bunker, pictures in Vol 32. The picture here does not show this plate, only the normal backed rails.

John

Queen Street shed, in the background, closed to LMS locos in 1933 - Hoole, Rail Centres: York

John

We're narrowing it down. Yeadon 32 says that No. 190 was moved to York from Heaton on the 23-03-1931 and stayed until 13-10-1931, when it went to Hull for about six months as an exchange. It returned on 21-04-1932 and stayed until withdrawal (and scrapping) on 5-12-1936. As JASd17 says, the rectangular plate was fitted in late 1932, so we have a choice of six months in 1931 and about six months in 1932. Fortuitously, X3 was painted on the buffer beam on December 1931, so this gives us an easy way to determine which period it was - provided we can see the buffer beam...

I think I can see a "3" underneath 190, but would appreciate a second (or third etc.) opinion in case I'm over eager to obtain a result. Am I seeing things or is this the second half of 'X3'?

There's something light coloured there, but it is right at the pixellation size of the on-screen image, so it's examination of the original print if available to resolve that one.

Would a time of day estimate and month range help? From a map of the location the time of day can be estimated fairly closely. This must be somewhere May to August as the sun is high in the sky, since the shadows are relatively short, a time of day could narrow it down further.