The LNER Encyclopedia

I have added a new photo I have acquired of 4470 Great Northern (sorry about quality)

4470 Great Northern 1st run to Kings Cross Langley 4th April 1922 


https://railway-photography.smugmug.com ... /i-DJRfBmQ


1470(4470)/1471(4471) Gresley A1 (4471 Rebuilt to A3) Built 1922 - Railway-Photography
railway-photography.smugmug.com
railway photographs from the last 100 years


1471 un-named in GNR livery photo dated August-November 1922 as it was named 9th November 1922 Gresley A1

https://railway-photography.smugmug.com ... /i-QBFsC9b


1471 un-named in GNR livery photo dated August-November 1922 as it was named 9th November 1922 Gresley A1
railway-photography.smugmug.com
railway photographs from the last 100 years

Last but not least, what Thompson did to Great Northern



https://railway-photography.smugmug.com ... /i-qz7bkv5


60113 Great Northern - Railway-Photography
railway-photography.smugmug.com
railway photographs from the last 100 years



https://railway-photography.smugmug.com ... /i-r6mrvgf


60113 Great Northern - Railway-Photography
railway-photography.smugmug.com
railway photographs from the last 100 years


Neil

Neil,
4471 shot 6/6 is on Down Fast about to run through Harringay (West).

Does anyone else find it bizzare seeing A1s with GNR on the tender after seeing so many images of them in LNER livery? I always forget that they were a pre-group design as they look so modern, especially compared to the NER Pacifics.

JonR wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:37 pm Does anyone else find it bizzare seeing A1s with GNR on the tender after seeing so many images of them in LNER livery? I always forget that they were a pre-group design as they look so modern, especially compared to the NER Pacifics.

Perhaps it is 'first impressions' that count? My permanent home has always been near the Southern end of the GN mainline, and a family friend in youth was 'GN' through and through: his romance was that the LNER was simply the GNR 'writ large'. He had a fine set of hand tinted photographs in the dining room to illustrate the correct path to maximum express power for UK service: Stirling's single, Ivatt's small and wide firebox atlantics, Gresley's Great Northern, a set which he called 'The Doncaster Achievement'. (They are in Australia now.)

Fact is that all subsequent successful UK pacifics borrow from the template first seen on Great Northern, and at Doncaster it proved to be a sound development platform for enlargement of power and sophistication in subsequent designs that saw steam out. Politically, one rather suspects that Gresley's A1 design was worked up for impressively modern appearance to advertise his and Doncaster's prowess, in full knowledge that grouping was on the way.

And how he succeeded, a pacific locomotive not significantly changed in externals from its pre-grouping appearance was the last visibly pre-group large express design in the final decade of service as steam wound down. The contemporary Stars, Claughtons, Paddleboats, Lanky Dreadnoughts, had all run out of steam well before, reached their limits of development decades earlier...

I think I have to agree with you. Reading through the literature, the NER Pacific, although closely matching the power output and performance of the original A1 when driven well (contemporary drivers accounts of them state they never pushed them hard as they felt unstable and were heavy on fuel, and so they usually had no benefit over an Atlantic), they were never going to be able to be developed like the A1/A3 were.

The one thing I disagree with is that I think while Raven and the NER built their Pacific as a case of one-upmanship, I reckon Gresley was genuinely looking at the need to replace the ageing large Atlantics with a worthy successor. If grouping had never happened I reckon Raven would have electrified the NER mainlines instead of building a Pacific.

JonR wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:48 am ...The one thing I disagree with is that I think while Raven and the NER built their Pacific as a case of one-upmanship, I reckon Gresley was genuinely looking at the need to replace the ageing large Atlantics with a worthy successor...

That the Gresley pacific was designed to fill a pressing need I would never dispute. But I do think the adoption of the large side window cab and the huge tender, while wholly practical adjuncts, speaks of the desire to make an impression for the coming group application. A three axle tender of standard GNR type would have provided adequate fuel range for the longest GNR run.