Returning to Grantham

[61070]

I have also seen some photos of Peaks on shed at Grantham, although I cannot recall if any of those are pre-closure.

There's a glimpse of one here, on 12th July 1962:
download/file.php?id=4829&mode=view

[61070]

Well I have seen mention of a few Deltic failures at Grantham in the magazines that I have scanned for the info posted above, although it does not say what happened to the failures.

I doubt that there was much that Grantham fitters could do, except to arrange for a tow back to the home depot.

Which is what appears to be happening here in late June 1962:
download/file.php?id=6028&mode=view
The fireman still lives in Grantham.

[Iron Duke]

Here she is at a later date passing through Grantham...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/barry13092/3917587526

[strang steel]

Here she is at a later date passing through Grantham...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/barry13092/3917587526

.....and doesn't look in too good a mechanical shape in that photo either, judging by the amount of oil thrown out onto the bodyside at the rear of the locomotive.

[strang steel]

Which is what appears to be happening here in late June 1962:
download/file.php?id=6028&mode=view
The fireman still lives in Grantham.

I have yet to find any mention in the ROs of D279, but D248 failed at Grantham on 7th July 1962 and was taken off the train by 67761. The replacement loco, for the 1710 Newcastle to Kings Cross, was 60048 which departed 30 minutes late, but regained 15 of those by the time it reached the capital.

[workev]

So a Peak was on shed at 34F in June 1962; and I have seen several pictures of Peaks at the shed. At this time they would have probably been Class 46's based at Gateshead, so did they change engines at Grantham with diesels at this time? I've not heard of many instances of freight changing engines at Grantham, so presumably passenger workings.

I know that Class 47s worked High Dyke trains, but surely not in the early 60s or when 34F was still open?

D279 was a 52A (Gateshead) engine in June 1962, although many of the Class 40s were York based.

Information at this time on official diagrams is difficult to find, so I dont know whether there are any York or Gateshead drivers/firemen who read the forum who can shed any light?

At this time, when East Coast steam was in decline many people ignored the diesels, which makes the research all the more interesting!

Ian

[strang steel]

I think that you are reading too much into this Ian.

The Peak is probably just another failure, or maybe there for driver training purposes.

The main advantage with the new diesels was that they could work through to London from York, Leeds and Newcastle on a regular basis.

The Brush 4s may have been used regularly on iron ore trains in later years, but in 1962/3 they were brand new, and not many of them, so any freight work they undertook was probably on a trial basis to see how many wagons they could manage compared with the O2s or WDs. The first one was not delivered until late September 1962.

[Iron Duke]

Another interesting shot from DavidWF's wonderful photostream.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidwf2009/5537724770

[Iron Duke]

An extract from the Derby Sulzers site...........

Eastern Region
The Eastern Region played a major role in the use of the Peaks away from their two prinicipal routes.
1961 On 15th November D25 took part in some high speed dynamometer car trials between Newcastle & Kings Cross. The load was ten coaches plus dynamometer car - 385 tons - allowed four hours seven minutes, Newark was passed three and a half minutes early. The next day a northbound trip was made leaving Kings Cross at 9.50am but to a slightly slower schedule.
ECML Newcastle - Kings Cross
The first role, entirely within the Eastern Region was that of the Gateshead Peaks (principally the Class 46's) on duties over the ECML between Kings Cross & Newcastle (and to a lesser extant to Edinburgh). Although this small group of locomotives were overshadowed by the more numerous Class 47's and the more publicised Deltics, they were always there plying the ECML on a variety of passenger workings. They were considered the equivalent of the Class 47/55's whilst the steam based timetables were in existance. Once these were recast to take advantage of the diesels greater capabilities the Peaks generally were found on the secondary passenger services. This was further emphasised with the introduction of fully air-conditioned, air-braked, electrically heated coaching stock.
The Peaks were often used on the Deltic turns, a shortage of Deltics on November 15th 1962 found the 7.50am & 9.40am Newcastle - Kings Cross being handled by D173 & D177 respectively.

http://www.derbysulzers.com/peakseverywhere.html

Hope this is useful?

[workev]

I think that you are reading too much into this Ian.

The Peak is probably just another failure, or maybe there for driver training purposes.

The main advantage with the new diesels was that they could work through to London from York, Leeds and Newcastle on a regular basis.

The Brush 4s may have been used regularly on iron ore trains in later years, but in 1962/3 they were brand new, and not many of them, so any freight work they undertook was probably on a trial basis to see how many wagons they could manage compared with the O2s or WDs. The first one was not delivered until late September 1962.

I'm not sure about reading too much, but the last year of Grantham Shed saw massive change, but finding information about it is quite difficult. I suppose I am throwing out theories/questions to see what answers come back!

Ian

[workev]

An extract from the Derby Sulzers site...........

Eastern Region
The Eastern Region played a major role in the use of the Peaks away from their two prinicipal routes.
1961 On 15th November D25 took part in some high speed dynamometer car trials between Newcastle & Kings Cross. The load was ten coaches plus dynamometer car - 385 tons - allowed four hours seven minutes, Newark was passed three and a half minutes early. The next day a northbound trip was made leaving Kings Cross at 9.50am but to a slightly slower schedule.
ECML Newcastle - Kings Cross
The first role, entirely within the Eastern Region was that of the Gateshead Peaks (principally the Class 46's) on duties over the ECML between Kings Cross & Newcastle (and to a lesser extant to Edinburgh). Although this small group of locomotives were overshadowed by the more numerous Class 47's and the more publicised Deltics, they were always there plying the ECML on a variety of passenger workings. They were considered the equivalent of the Class 47/55's whilst the steam based timetables were in existance. Once these were recast to take advantage of the diesels greater capabilities the Peaks generally were found on the secondary passenger services. This was further emphasised with the introduction of fully air-conditioned, air-braked, electrically heated coaching stock.
The Peaks were often used on the Deltic turns, a shortage of Deltics on November 15th 1962 found the 7.50am & 9.40am Newcastle - Kings Cross being handled by D173 & D177 respectively.

http://www.derbysulzers.com/peakseverywhere.html

Hope this is useful?

Thanks! This is an excellent site, but has no diagrams for the 1960s, might have to send some emails out later!

Ian

[60129 GUY MANNERING]

61070 posted a photo of a B1 pulling a failed Deltic into platform 3 at Grantham earlier in this thread.

[Andy W]

Type 4 power was much in demand during 1963 because the deliveries of Brush 4 locos was getting behind schedule and when they did arrive, there were a few mods that had to be done on them after a few weeks/months of service.

Diesels were not scheduled to be changed en-route like their steam predecessors so unless it was a terminating working or it was a failure, it is unlikely that Grantham shed saw much in the way of main line diesels before closure.

The creeping dieselisation programme on the GN main line is well documented in contemporary magazines (as well as the KX allocation records that have survived) and there was a real move to get the Brush 4 locos on both passenger and fast freight work as soon as they could.

The closure of Grantham shed was another milestone in that story with Brush 2 and 4 locos taking over the sheds workings, but based elsewhere. Crews still changed over at the station and locos would lay over in the yard but that was about it.

EE type 3 use was discouraged over the ECML because of the driver familiarity issues although they were used as part of the Sheffield Divisions dieselisation programme for that year, including use on Joint Line freights to March.

Once enough Brush 4 locos had been delivered in the following year or so, they started to be used on more widespread duties on the ECML where their greater haulage capacity could make a difference in the number of trains needed on a flow. The High Dyke workings were a good example of this.

General loco diagrams surviving from this period are about as rare as a chocolate teapot.

[strang steel]

Type 4 power was much in demand during 1963 because the deliveries of Brush 4 locos was getting behind schedule and when they did arrive, there were a few mods that had to be done on them after a few weeks/months of service.

Diesels were not scheduled to be changed en-route like their steam predecessors so unless it was a terminating working or it was a failure, it is unlikely that Grantham shed saw much in the way of main line diesels before closure.

The creeping dieselisation programme on the GN main line is well documented in contemporary magazines

<snip>

You say that, but I find that there are plenty of diesel reports in the 1961/2 magazines because the new locos are almost a novelty, but as they take over passenger workings in increasing numbers the emphasis soon switches to steam substitutions and the details of the diesel workings disappear.

The other problem, from a linesider's notes point of view, is that all the early EE4 locos only had discs, and therefore it was not always possible to know the service they were working.

I rarely bothered with 4 character headcodes until the mid 60s, and the few peaks that I saw at that time had the following headcodes:-

D172 - 1A09, D175 - 1A52, D171 - 1N09, D181 - 1A32, D183 - 1A38, D170 - 1E81, D186 - 1E77, D172 - 3N30,
D168 - 1N22, D185 - 4S04, D178 - 1A27

[Andy W]

Apologies, I didn't make myself clear - I was meaning the sweep & scope of change in a particular area rather than the individual trains.

What isn't at all well documented is the effect all the changes had on train crew establishments and how these reduced throughout the 1960's, especially as the freight volumes started to steadily disappear.