Returning to Grantham

[giner]

Egad! I never thought I'd see a Norman Nippy again. I was demoted from a Norton 16H to one of those when I was a learner. The law was changed to say that learners could ride only those bikes that were under 250cc. Talk about crestfallen.

[workev]

Folks,

I am trying to build up a view on the types of wagons in freight trains through Grantham in the late 1950s/early 1960s.

The photos here are invaluable, but any pointers would be gratefully received, especially on oil, cement, open wagons (coal and pick-up type loads).

I am trying to match what is available today from Bachmann mainly with what actually ran, even with "modelling license"!

It would also be useful to understand what freioght was sorted in Grantham yard for local traffic.

Ian

[61070]

I think you could be right about the advert being for Brylcreem, 52D.

That was a cruel change in the law giner. Were the pedals on those things ever used as anything more than footrests? Another ‘classic moped’ shot - Ken Baines with a Raleigh RM4 automatic. 30th April 1964.

Here’s some coverage of goods traffic around Grantham from the pages of the local weekly newspaper The Grantham Journal:

August 4th 1961 (p5)
“Concrete” offer by British Railways solves a by-pass problem
Frequently criticised, British Railways are this week due some praise for their prompt “concrete” offer in helping to solve a cement firm’s problem, thereby playing a part in the construction of the six-miles-long Grantham by-pass.
The firm – the Cement Marketing Co., Ltd. – had undertaken to transport 20,000 tons of bulk cement from the Rochester area of Kent to the site.
The big problem was – could a suitable railhead be found in the Grantham area for off-loading the cement?
As lorries had to be loaded by gravity there had to be an appreciable drop between rail level and the road. This meant that the choice of railhead sites in the area was very limited.
British Railways were approached by the firm, and the King’s Cross traffic area quickly got down to solving the problem. It was finally agreed with representatives of the firm that Great Ponton was the nearest station capable of providing the necessary facilities.
By slewing one existing siding and re-grading another a discharge point was achieved with a drop of some 12 feet to the road. Next a temporary prefabricated cover was placed over this point and the lorry loading point.
Since the discharge arrangements require compressed air the firm installed a diesel compressor on the site.
An airtight joint between the wagon bottom outlet and the flow pipe leading to the lorry had to be effected. This was achieved by an ingenious arrangement using a "concertina" joint – which incorporated a series of large inner tubes being inflated inside the pipe.
A manually operated slide valve opens the door and allows the cement – assisted by air pressure – to discharge. The operator is able to regulate the flow by means of an iris-type shutter device.…
It is expected that some 600 tons of cement will be handled each week.

November 16th 1962 (p1)
Grantham is retained as livestock handling centre
One type of freight which Grantham railway station will continue to handle is livestock, for although the number of stations throughout the country at present handling this type is to be reduced by one in 10 – from 2,493 to 232 – Grantham is not affected, it was officially stated yesterday.
The changes will come into effect on January 1st, after which the facilities will be confined to places where there is a substantial regular flow of this traffic or where, because of their geographical position, future substantial trunk hauls can be anticipated.
Records show that in a 12-month period Grantham handled about 1,000 head of cattle in, and about 50 out.
The incoming cattle were mainly from Wales and Scotland.
The Grantham goods agent, Mr E.D. Hewitt, does not anticipate at this stage that the closing of other stations will make a great difference to the numbers of cattle passing through Grantham since there are no other stations in the near vicinity which have been accustomed to handling livestock themselves.

The above explains the presence of cattle wagons in the up side goods yard, visible in several of the pictures.

May 10th 1963 (p1)
Grantham earth-movers leave for Egypt
Destined for Egypt, 32 Aveling-Barford 13½-ton payload shuttle dump trucks left Grantham station on Wednesday, for shipment from Liverpool. With spare parts, the order is worth approximately a quarter of a million pounds, which will be met from the recent British Government loan to that country. …
[with a photo showing the items of plant loaded onto wagons, though the type of wagon is not apparent from my rather poor copy of the picture]

There’s a photo of an Aveling-Barford road roller on a lowmac wagon on page 92 of the recently published Grantham Colour Portfolio of Keith Pirt’s photographs.

[giner]

Oh yes, the pedals were what got the thing going. You'd pedal like a pushbike, then drop the clutch (or was it open the petrol feed via a lever on the handlebars - so long ago I can hardly remember) and she'd fire up and away you went. Tell you what though, at today's petrol prices I'd have another one in a heartbeat.

[strang steel]

Folks,

I am trying to build up a view on the types of wagons in freight trains through Grantham in the late 1950s/early 1960s.

The photos here are invaluable, but any pointers would be gratefully received, especially on oil, cement, open wagons (coal and pick-up type loads).

I am trying to match what is available today from Bachmann mainly with what actually ran, even with "modelling license"!

It would also be useful to understand what freioght was sorted in Grantham yard for local traffic.

Ian

It is difficult to be precise about the goods wagons that ran through Grantham over 50 years ago, because in those days the variety of wagons in one train could be tremendous. There were a number of Colwick to New England, and Doncaster - New England services. I presume that the majority of the latter were coal trains bound for London.

From memory, photos and videos available I would suggest that the Bachmann 16t mineral wagon range (unfitted) provides most of the stock that you would need for a c1960 coal train. The occasional 24.5t double door mineral wagon appeared in rakes, but I would not have more than 2 or 3 for realism. Likewise, the occasional ex SNCF, sloping side and wooden bodied wagon crops up, but rarely more than 1 or 2 in a 40 wagon train.

The larger coal hopper wagons were very rare, in fact I dont remember seeing any. They seem to have been concentrated on the NE.

See http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brmineral

I suppose that you could have one or two in a service destined for the Newcastle area, in a more general freight train.

The very first photo on page 1 of this thread gives an excellent illustration of the iron ore trains although that picture is of a WD rather than an O2. Once again, from a 1960-ish point of view the Bachmann iron ore tippler is spot on. However, a closer inspection of the wagons behind the loco suggest a variation in depths to the bodies and this was a feature of the trains that I saw, as was the slight variation in height, size and position of the black panel with "iron ore tippler" lettering.

However, I doubt that particular train was on the regular Frodingham service via Sleaford and Boston, because my understanding was they were limited to around 18 loaded wagons due to the short uphill gradient at Ancaster. Certainly, my memories from the early 60s were that an iron ore train over 20 wagons (including brake van) was extremely rare through Sleaford . And the empties were generally double length, i.e. two 18 wagon sets together minus the second brake van which tended to return with any light engine movements, of which there were many.

You will also notice that the 14th vehicle is a 16t coal wagon filled with iron ore. One of these seemed to find its way into a number of trains but I have no idea how, or what damage was done to the vehicle when 27t of ore was being carried.

The tipplers were built in 1958, so would not be correct for a layout prior to this, but at least would be in relatively new condition for 1959/60 which will avoid a lot of severe weathering, something that I find difficult to achieve to a realistic (and rusty) degree.

I know very little about oil flows by rail in those days, but I dont remember seeing too many trains comprised of just oil tankers in that area; they seemed to appear within ordinary freight trains. If you were modelling somewhere closer to Immingham, then it would be a different story.

[ROY@34F]

I don't wish to nit pick, but I think we used to have a few more than 18 loaded iron ore tipplers ,John(strangsteel),on the Frodingham trains.I always thought we used to bring 14 at a time off the Stainby branch,2x14 assembled into 28 at Hihgdyke to go to Frod. If you look at the 1st. photo in this thread,there are certainly well in the 20's of wagons behind the WD. I have seen photos of loaded trains at Skillington Rd. (on the Stainby branch) with 18 or so wagons on,which sort of blows my theory of 14!.Although rules were bent all the time "up the branch" so it could still be that 14 at a time was the rule.
Roy.

[PGBerrie]

I think you could be right about the advert being for Brylcreem, 52D.

Does seem to fit, but there is some text (a signature?) in the bottom left hand corner "...ku..." hidden by the trolley, although at a push it could be "Brylcreem". I've also looked in the web - there are plenty of Brylcreem ads for the 1950's but very few for the 1960s.

My first thought was Dennis Compton writing on cricket in a Sunday newspaper, but it his parting was on the other side. The second thing that comes to mind is insurance. Does anyone know who the guy is?

Peter

[rob237]

Pearl Assurance had a pension advert' showing a similar line of faces...
My reservation is that they don't appear to be ageing...which was the advert's theme!
Cheers
Robt P.

[52D]

Dennis Compton was used as a poster boy for the aforementioned hair creme.

[rob237]

But it ain't Den(n)is!...sic

Folks,
I am trying to build up a view on the types of wagons in freight trains through Grantham in the late 1950s/early 1960s.
snip >>>
It would also be useful to understand what freioght was sorted in Grantham yard for local traffic.

Other passing freight traffic from that era would be:
9F's working fully-fitted Conflats...
Roller bearing A1's, or A2's, on the Aberdeen Blue Spot Fish - invariably passing in the early hours!
The twice weekly Peterborough - Colwick 'pick-up' freights...often B1 hauled.

There was an active small goods shed immediately behind the Yard Box, usually devoted to unloading many types of vans...with direct road access to Station Road.
The (3?) sidings furthest across were used for manual coal unloading, from the ubiquitous 16T wagons. The tracks were sufficiently spaced to permit lorry access between them.

Several pictures, earlier in this thread, showing varieties of different freight traffic stored in these up-side sidings...
Cattle wagons being quite prominent.

Cheers
Robt P.

[workev]

Many thanks to all those who have contributed to the Freight Trains discussion here. Many photos on this thread have been invaluable, so anything else will always be welcomed.

In trawling through a certain Auction site I came across an item describing Sunday Excursions between Peterborough and Grantham in Summer 1961.

Has anybody any idea what the train formation was, and/or the locos used to haul these. They are pretty tight timings (32 mins in one case).

I have also seen photos of L1s on the main line between Peterborough and Grantham (the Hornby model is fab!), can anybody shed any light on whether these were regular turns?

Most of the mention of the L1s on here has been on Nottingham turns (occasionally eastbound as well?).

Trying to find some time to visit Grantham Library this summer as well!

Ian

[strang steel]

I don't wish to nit pick, but I think we used to have a few more than 18 loaded iron ore tipplers ,John(strangsteel),on the Frodingham trains.I always thought we used to bring 14 at a time off the Stainby branch,2x14 assembled into 28 at Hihgdyke to go to Frod. If you look at the 1st. photo in this thread,there are certainly well in the 20's of wagons behind the WD. I have seen photos of loaded trains at Skillington Rd. (on the Stainby branch) with 18 or so wagons on,which sort of blows my theory of 14!.Although rules were bent all the time "up the branch" so it could still be that 14 at a time was the rule.
Roy.

Now you are making me doubt my own memory. My parents back garden was within 50 yards of the line and I was sure that it was less than 20 that I counted (I always counted wagons and carriages for some reason) unless I am 10 out and it was 28. I remember asking the Sleaford East signalman (who lived opposite us) why there were so few, and he told me the bit about the gradient at Ancaster.

Sadly, although I wrote all this down in a book during the 60s my mother threw it out after I left home.

[ROY@34F]

[quote="workev"]

I have also seen photos of L1s on the main line between Peterborough and Grantham (the Hornby model is fab!), can anybody shed any light on whether these were regular turns?
Ian,
I think the L1s came to Grantham around late '60to early '61,being displaced from KX. As you say,mainly used on theNotts/Derby trains,and coach shunt jobs.The only regular job south,I am pretty sure,was the midday(ish)crew changeover trip with a brakevan,up to Highdyke and back.
Interestingly,I worked on them while on loan to KX,and on returning to Grantham in Dec.'60,worked on the very same engines,as they had been displaced by diesels at KX.
Sorry to disappoint you,but I don't think they regularly ran south of Highdyke.
I had the same discussion one day with Tony Wright,who was trying to find an excuse to run L1s through his Little Bytham layout. You'll have to use a little of "modeller's licence",because the Hornby model is fab,as you say.
Roy.

[workev]

Roy,

Yes I have seen Tony Wright's thoughts on L1s. BUT, I have definitely seen a photo of one with 4 coaches either at Great Ponton or Essendine station but cannot remember where. Will look at my books on my return to UK from work abroad.

Any thoughts on the Sunday Excursions that ran between Peterborough and Grantham in the summer of 1961?

Ian

[60129 GUY MANNERING]

When Roy Jackson,John Phillips & Geoff Kent had the model "High Dyke" back in the 1980's they always ran a Southbound Local hauled by an L1. When the layout appeared in a magazine in about 1980,(it was a new Magazine and the name escapes me) there was a colour photo of said train, but as Roy 34F said,and I agree, the only southbound workings I ever recall for the L1's was to High Dyke with the crew change overs which on many occassions conveyed my Uncle (George Aubrey Betts) who was a guard on the Branch. However dear old Roy Jackson is such a stickler for detail & accuracy,that I doubt he would have run something that was not Prototypical.
Kind Regards.