Returning to Grantham

[workev]

I will try and find out some information on the meat train, and get back.

Always nice to get your footplate memories Roy.

Ian

[61070]

That's another good story about the welcome you got back at Grantham loco.

The little hut near 'London Road' – that'll be the one on the right in these two pictures which were taken from almost the same spot, but four years apart – 31st August 1961 (which I've put on here before) and, for contrast, October 1965. My little joke about these two pictures is 'Who stole the bike?' If you look carefully around the middle of the later shot, perhaps you can see it being ridden away!!

I was told the following by a retired Grantham Driver:
The bike probably belonged to caller-up and odd-job man Pete Balaam, who would often be sent out to get pork pies from Watkin's Pork Butchers in the town [still in business, http://www.citikey.com/business/10879236/] for visiting crews - especially 'Cockneys' as they were referred to (from King's Cross depot) who relished this local speciality.

Incidentally I can't claim credit for the signal box diagrams – they are an excellent resource provided by Richard Pike on his website.

By the way there's a photo of 92188 on page 12, but long after its few months as a Grantham engine.

[R. pike]

Now that's an interesting photo(14). What is that lurking behind the arm on 61 signal? It looks like a closed end tuning fork to operate the circuit controller for the signal repeater. I have never seen it done that way before. 73 carries the same arrangement.

[giner]

And do I spot V2 60872 Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry facing the camera head on?

I thought at first it was an A3, 60072 or 60073, but your photos with an A3 in them usually turn out to be 60112 St. Simon. However, the giveaway in this shot is the tender, so 60872 it is. Do I win a coconut?

[strang steel]

What intrigues me is the loco behind the WD on the extreme left. It has a very high running plate (compared with the WD) and at first I thought it was an Ivatt 4MT but from what can be made out of the boiler and cab shape/size it doesn't appear to be one of those.

(Edited to say that after looking at a few other photos I conclude that it must be a B1, but until now I never realised the cabs were so much larger and the running plate so much higher than a Dub-dee).


That photo has to be one of the most interesting shots I have seen for a long time. It is so full of detail that I could look at it for hours and still discover some item of interest from a modelling point of view.

[R. pike]

The detail in all of this group of photos is breathtaking. How about the lamp on the short section of telegraph pole between the platforms? It is possible to make out that it is the type fitted with a small bullseye as used behind a miniature arm or disc signal. Does anyone know what it's for? I know and I'm sure StevieG will know also.

[workev]

Two years after closure it's hard to see what the shed looked like; great before and after comparison.

I requested some info on the BR forum and it seems that the 9Fs worked the following diagrams:

07.15 Pcls Grantham - Doncaster Carr loco
13.40 Doncaster to East Goods KX Loco
05.00 Pcls KX - Grantham

They were probably sent there because of the fall off in coal traffic in the summer months.

Ian

[ROY@34F]

Thanks for the kind remarks gents.These photos are indeed amazing.I must confess after all these years I'm having trouble identifying exactly where London Rd. is..I think the nearest L1 is just coming off shed from there? Can anyone varify this? The maze of complicated pointwork as well at that time ! The other engines to the left of it,on London Rd.,and in the old (roofless)shed.Far left is where the breakdon train used to usually stand,or is it the far road in the old shed ? Very interesting though . The chap on the bike : don't think that is Pete Ballaam in this case , he was far further around the girth than that ! I remember old Pete,nice enough chap but a bit shy of work,he was supposed to be the mess room cleaner,as I remember;spent more time studying the horses for the day I think.I've heard the pork pie stories also.Is that Roy Veasey you refer to ,61070 ? I once fired for Roy just after he passed for driving,on an A3 to London.Happy days . Thanks again for the photos,they really take one back;can almost whiff thesmell of hot oil ! p.s. The curve at extreme rihgt must be to the "angle".

[ROY@34F]

I have just re looked at photos ; the far left engines are still in the od shed roads,the end wall of the shed is still there,well it has the fitter's shop behind it,and the general office behind the right hand side of it,(adjoined behind it was the shedmaster's office) Cyril Richardson was shedmaster.

[61070]

giner - 60872 it is, and I hadn't realised that it was one of the V2 'namers' until you mentioned it there. Checking the tiff file there is indeed a suggestion of the nameplate on the running board. So give that man a coconut indeed. The pacific in the far right background has been identified as an A2/3, by expert analysis on this forum some time ago.

strang steel - it is a B1, in fact Grantham's 61251 Oliver Bury, as another photo taken on the same occasion shows, behind 90059. The B1's recently been lit up, as the smoke tumbling away from the chimney and enshrouding the cab indicates.

I'm going to weigh in with a suggestion in relation to R.pike's question over the lamp on its post at the end of the platform ramp. I'd say that the lamp was associated with the short siding at far left of the earlier photo, on which main line locomotives stood while waiting to take over northbound trains. So my suggestion is that it was a lamp to indicate the position of the buffer stop, and it had been left behind when the siding was lifted?

[StevieG]

" .... How about the lamp on the short section of telegraph pole between the platforms? It is possible to make out that it is the type fitted with a small bullseye as used behind a miniature arm or disc signal. Does anyone know what it's for? I know and I'm sure StevieG will know also. "

.... I'm not ! Leftover from a removed engine spur buffer stop ?
A marker for the end of the platform in the gloom of darkness to guide the footplate crew on where to stop - incl. possibly for locos backing onto trains ?

A good spot re the 'tuning fork' behind the upper signal arms on both brackets, but I can't think of any other explanation than yours, RP, though I've never seen their like before.

[R. pike]

How about fog marking point. The lamp is single sided and faces the box.

[61070]

ROY@34F - you must have been writing your last two pieces when I was doing mine yesterday and they 'crossed'. Yes, I agree that the cyclist in the 1965 shot probably wouldn't be Pete Balaam. I believe it was Roy, and some of his mates, who suggested that the bike in the 1961 shot may have belonged to Pete.

You're right about the back wall of the old shed and associated buildings still standing in 1965. You've also solved a question I had about the shedmaster's name. I've seen it written as 'F.C. Richardson', but I didn't know what either of the initials were for, or which of his names he was known by. Andy W mentions him on page 14 in correspondence about the shed's final few days.

Now into the fray again with the discussion about the lamp on its post (these diversions really are fascinating!). May I suggest that two of the suggestions are correct? The theory I put forward is that it was principally a lamp to mark the end of the engine spur, but that it may also have served as the Grantham North 'box fog marking point. I've measured the distance from the 'box to the lamp's position using an old OS map and it's 500 feet (perhaps plus or minus 10 feet). Is that a significant distance? If this theory's correct, the lamp may have been retained for the fog marking purpose after the spur was lifted. It would seem strange that it was simply 'left behind', though I do remember various odd bit of railway infrastructure dotted about the country on abandoned lines long after the demolition trains had left. In fact earlier this year I saw that there is still a signal post and some fittings on an isolated section of the GC viaduct through Leicester, 40 years after the last train passed. However, everything in the 1965 shot is so neat and tidy - even the sleeper indentations have been levelled off - that I doubt the post and lamp would have remained if they served no useful purpose. I've found another photo from the 31st Aug 1961 sequence which shows the location with the spur still in situ. Also a slightly clearer view of the 'tuning fork' setup. What do the signalling guys think?

[rob237]

Always been rather intrigued by the pointwork under North Box control...

IIRC, there were at least three distinct route options from the shed to the downside waiting spur.

Do you have any further pictures of the pointwork around the box, particularly the double-slip area which led to the spur and the bay? If so, would be delighted to be reminded of the exact layout...thanks!

Cheers
Robt P.

[StevieG]

Thanks for the 1961 scene, 61070. I was guessing at there having been an engine spur without having known that there had been one, despite the, as you say, levelling to remove the sleeper indentations.

I stand to willingly be corrected, but I thought Fog Marking Points tended to be 200 yards from 'boxes'. So, depending on the OS accuracy, 500 ft. might be a little off to have been one. On the other hand the lamp's close proximity to the former engine spur buffer stop makes me lean towards it having been a leftover from that : - The second-hand use of an upper piece of telegraph pole for such a function seems unusual, though most economical.

Regarding another little facet observed in this '61 shot, notice the number board/plate - "17 19" - low down on the back of the foreground lattice signal post for the Bay. Have seen such in a few other places, like on both legs (though on the front in that case) of Wood Green No.1's wide Down Homes gantry. These two numbers should be those of North box's levers that operate the signals above.
But the concrete main post of the bracket signal further away doesn't seem to have such a board.

This thread continues to inform, fascinate and entertain. Thanks so much to all yet again.