Returning to Grantham

[workev]

The 1957 Railway Observers say very little, apart from noting the transfer of 60003, 60008, 60010 and 60030 to Grantham, in exchange for 60044, 60103, 60136 and 60139.

It does mention that the first observed working of 60010 from Grantham was on the 0550 ex-Kings Cross on 4th April.

The corresponding Railway Magazines for 1957 say very little also, except to repeat the numbers of the transferred locos, but the June 1957 Trains Illustrated (well, it is a miserable day and SWMBO is away until this evening ) comes up with this:-

"We understand the reason for the change is that the A4s now prove heavier on maintenance even than the A3s, let alone the A1s; in particular, an unexplained tendency of A4s right hand driving axleboxes to overheat is causing concern. Following the transfers, a series of dynamometer car trials was concluded between London and Newcastle with A3s to test their ability to tackle through workings between the two cities."

So the A4s were actually replacing A3s which were being appraised for a permanent switch! I assume then as they returned south in September 1957 that they fixed the fault with the A4s? Will look at my Book of the A4s and see whether it says anything in there.

Ian

[strang steel]

The answer may be the fitting of the Kylchap double chimneys to the remaining A4s.

You need to read 'Top Shed' p149-155. I dont understand the technicalities but it seems to be a result of Donny Works adopting a GWR method of optical cylinder alignment.

What amazes me about the double chimney arrangements, was that because of 34As research into the details, the modification only cost £200 per loco. One wonders what might have been achieved had this been done in 1950 rather than 1957-61 on the A4s, A3s and V2s?

[ROY@34F]

The water sprinting from below the R.H. buffer : was it wet/raining? - the water being picked up by the leading bogie wheel,thrown around the mudguard,and arc like fashion,out in front,and just catching the light from somewhere.? anyway,thanks 61070,lovely shots,as always,and nice of you-in connection with my 60131 trip.

[ROY@34F]

Re.61070's photoes of 60157:what was the detonators for?,as there is an ATC ramp a few yards further on,which surely does the same job. i.e. warning of the indication of the colour light signal at the end of the down platform. i should know i suppose,but can't think of a reason . About the A4s at KX,yes Peter Townend instigated a lot of improvements to the A4s,and the A3s. the double blastpipes/chimneys certainly rejuvinated theA3s.they were very free steaming,and well capable of maintaining deisel timings of the day,well, the type 4 2000 hp. anyway. a little story(I have a habit of this! is it my age?)When at top shed,I once had to go in front of Mr.Townend,cap-in-hand, for a rollicking! i had caused a derailment on shed by switching some points,waving the driver back,and bump,bump,bump-on the sleepers! there was a lump of coal in the switch blades,and they had'nt gone over properly. He told me I'd be back at grantham if I was naughty again.

[StevieG]

Det.Placers at signal boxes : A last resort if any emergency suddenly needed the signalman to do all possible to stop a train as soon as possible [ including putting all the train's signals (and on other lines if appropriate to the situation) back to Danger/Caution, and sending whatever emergency bell signal(s) to his neighbours, e.g., the somewhat well-known "6 bells" (six beats on the block bell, consecutively); = "Obstruction; Danger"].

The AWS (ATC) purpose was essentially to give audio/visual, warning/'draw attention to', a Distant signal at Caution, including semaphore Distants mounted below semaphore stop signals, but the standard applications came to include colour-light Distants, again including the Distant function (actual or similar to) provided by a yellow or double-yellow on a colour-light signal actually acting also as a stop signal. At these latter, for consistency, the AWS warning was given for a red as well as any yellow aspect, although the AWS's mode of operation could not, and was never intended to, be able to bring a train to a stand from full speed in the usually 200 yards available. In due course, again for some consistency, AWS was put in for colour-light stop signals that could not show any yellow aspect ; I think it being considered that, although not capable of stopping a speeding train at the red, if the train was approaching a red so fast that it wasn't going to pull up in time, and it was because the Driver wasn't watching, or couldn't watch, his signals, and not acknowledging AWS warnings either, better for the AWS applying partial brakes and maybe stop the train soon, even though it would have by then passed the red signal.

So the signalman pulling the detonators onto the rail in emergency, and their exploding under the loco's wheels, should immediately alert the footplate crew, and cause them to know(?) that they had to stop a.s.a.p., even if the last signals they saw were all clear, hence any staff having detonators and becoming aware of something unsafe to trains on the line, could use hand-placed detonators as part of emergency protection.

[third-rail]

Picture 2 seems to be causing all the fun!

Within it, I'm wondering...what are the nine items of cylindrical debris beneath the down-side platform edge?

Cheers
Robt P.

are they the spindles for the nearby point rodding wheels as they dont appear to have theaded sections for nuts?

[StevieG]

Picture 2 seems to be causing all the fun!

Within it, I'm wondering...what are the nine items of cylindrical debris beneath the down-side platform edge?

Cheers
Robt P.

are they the spindles for the nearby point rodding wheels as they dont appear to have theaded sections for nuts?

Good thought, but I doubt it.
As far as I know, the rods, whether channel rodding, or tubular/solid round, usually ran on the appropriate 'wheels' which themselves moved back and forth bearing on their own integral side lugs rolling to/fro over short distances within horizontal oval slots in each point rod roller (PRR) side casting.

[workev]

I managed to acquire a copy of Top Shed by Peter Townend a couple of days ago, and having read the section that John alluded to I am going to make a "deduced assumption" about the move north of the 4 A4s in April 1957. It appears that during 1956/57 a lot of work was done by Top Shed in trying to sort out problems with the A4s right hand axle bearing, and then general problems with steaming.

The RH axle bearing problems were well known, and a result of the way that the 3-cylinder arrangement provided drive to the locomotive. Due to the maintenace programme in place these problems were manageble. In 1957 Doncaster works then adopted GWR method of optical alignment of the cylinders, which effectively meant that each axle box became a specific LH or RH one and in effect were unique to each locomotive. In the end 34A got Doncaster to provide a spare set of LH and RH after each works visit where the cylinders were re-aligned.

The re-shuffle in the 1957 timetable was associated with change in more through workings for KX links, thus demanding locos that could run trouble free to Newcastle from KX. Until the axle bearing problems had been resolved it seems that 4 A4s were switched with A1/A3s to help ease the problems until a solution was found. After the A4s returned to KX the programme of fitting of Kylchap blast pipes on those A4s that had not had them fitted frome new, further improved the A4s and meant that they could keep up with the timings set for them on the longer runs. Under 34As lead, the A3s were quickly fitted with the Kylchap blastpipes and the locos were transformed.

It seems that Top Shed drove these improvements forward as a result of the demands placed upn the shed by the train planners, and perhaps also caused Doncaster Works a few problems as well!

Ian

[Bryan]

Picture 2 seems to be causing all the fun!

Within it, I'm wondering...what are the nine items of cylindrical debris beneath the down-side platform edge?

Cheers
Robt P.

are they the spindles for the nearby point rodding wheels as they dont appear to have theaded sections for nuts?

Good thought, but I doubt it.
As far as I know, the rods, whether channel rodding, or tubular/solid round, usually ran on the appropriate 'wheels' which themselves moved back and forth bearing on their own integral side lugs rolling to/fro over short distances within horizontal oval slots in each point rod roller (PRR) side casting.

Not only that but what is the purpose of the 2 wooden pegs in the 6ft?
That coupled with the pulley wires in the cess, tends to push me towards some sort of pulley route and not a PW alignment / level peg.
Has there been some sort of S+T abandonment / renewal work going on?
The items in question appear to be burnt through so are they long bolts which have had the heads / nuts burnt off?

[ROY@34F]

Detonators:Thanks,StevieG.your quite right,of course.Very profesionally described also.They were there for emergency warnings,which is why,of course,we had a canister of 12 on every engine .they were colour coded,as you may know,the colour changed periodically to ensure they were kept up to date, in good condition. In my short time on the footplate,I dont't recall ever using them,nor of any incident where they were used

[61070]

Many thanks for the comments and discussion on the photos of Great Eastern, especially covering the incidental details such as the S&T equipment identified by StevieG and the riveted tender admired by manna – interesting and much appreciated.

There is diagram from the Yard Box at http://richard2890.fotopic.net/p61538676.html. It represents the layout after the connection had gone, but it does show, if I'm interpreting the symbols on the diagram correctly, that the 'box controlled detonator placers on both the up and the down main lines.

Incidentally, my series of photographs shows that the points featured in picture 2, which provided a down slow into down main connection at the Yard Box, had quite a short life in service - 4 years 2 months max., 2yrs 3 months min. - as follows:

History of renewal and removal, 1961-65, from dated photographs:
• 31st August 1961 - points in bullhead rail; down main in flat bottom rail on both sides;
• 24th May 1962 – the points had been renewed in flat bottom rail;
• July 1964 – still in place as above;
• October 1965 – the connection had been removed.

On A1s a riveted tender tank indicates Doncaster build; tenders constructed at Darlington had flush-sided tanks which I believe indicated welded construction (rather than flush-riveted). Why did two main works, which had both been part of the same organisation since the early 1920s, offer different fabrication techniques in the late 1940s for an identical product?

Ref. 60030 at Grantham during the era under discussion – see the photo at page 6 (by which time it was back at 34A) and with it the story of a Grantham Cleaner's (later Driver's) first firing turn on the main line. In some ways it correlates with ROY@34F's experience on 60131. There are as many 'rites of passage' from boy to man as there are world cultures, but a hundred miles or more firing on an express locomotive footplate with an 'old school' and kindly Driver is one I would have settled for - if I'd had the opportunity!

[ROY@34F]

thanks again 61070,with ref. to my first main line trip,and your very interesting Yard box diagram.by the way that first 150 mile trip to Doncaster was eclipsed by my 2nd.a month or so later,I went with a Top shed Driver Pumfrey fromK.X.one early morning to Grantham with a Grantham A3,off with the engine to the loco on arrival,just time to mash(in the little hut near "london road",which you may recall),and then get on the prepared engine for the return working,the 8-35 to K.X,with non other than 60007,Sir Nigel Gresley !,a trip which of course I will never forget. In case you did'nt know,London road was the 2 loops near the exit from the loco,where prepared engines were placed.there was a phone there to the north box to tell the "bobby" when you were ready to leave the shed.Word somehow got around I was there and a fellow spare fireman came and built the "back corners" up for me.,Steve Taylor..we were cleaning together along with Tony Stevens,whom i have seen in your photos on the platform a few years later,in the greasers cabin.I still see Tony accasionally in town.

[Columbo]

61070: superb shot of the footplatemen, 'grease tops', blue overalls,over jackets and gas mask holder 'bait bags' . One cap badge -tangerine- to help in recognition so one at least is an NER man, Possibly, some are York, Leeds or Newcastle men waiting to relieve. The sponge cloths (sweat rags) numerous uses on hot and grimy steam engines. Also the white billy can for tea, often without milk, as it would go off in the heat . One has a flat 'snap tin' in his jacket pocket, another has his bicycle clips around his overall trousers, again useful for, a) their designed purpose, b) to stop coal dust entering c) to keep the trouser bottoms safely tucked in so as not to catch on anything. So much in one photograph.

If indeed they are NE men, they look as though they're fresh on, judging by their cleanliness, which might indicate they'd travelled south on the 'cushions' to work back north, or perhaps had been lodging? Another possibility: Road Learners?
Superb photographs!

[workev]

Another one for Roy's memory now. My Xpress book states that two 9Fs (92187 and 92188) were allocated to Grantham between June and September in 1958. So Roy, did you fire either of these engines, and if so was it freight or passenger?

Does anybody have any record of these engines at Grantham, and any workings? I assume they were allocated for freight workings, but given it was the summer months and the A3 rebuild programme was in fulol swing, were they there to support some of the passenger workings from the shed?

Ian

[ROY@34F]

Ian, yes I recall two 9Fs being at Grantham .I did'nt think they were there for long;looks like just for the summer workings then . They were there to work a"meat train" up to London , but that's all I can tell you . What time of day,wether it was a new job/just for the summer, I don't know I'm afraid . I did'nt go on them(9Fs)at the time , I had only passed out for firing a couple of months earlier . While at top shed on loan for two years , I had a few trips on 9Fs though , mainly from KX Goods or Ferme Park to New England , a nice engine to work on of course,though I was on one one day while at KX on a ballast train at Harringhay, and my leather bag,which was all the fassion at the time,was in the tender cupboard.When I went to get it out it had shrivelled like shrink wrap around my snap tin!! It turned out the tender water sprinkler pipe went through the back of the cupboard , and had sprung a leak !! filling the cupboard with steam . I think my snap tin was ok , but don't remember what my sambo s were like .