For Modellers

[hq1hitchin]

What Bill's getting at, I think, is that it is still branded '2', when Second Class had been abolished on almost all trains years previously. The Harwich Boat Trains and some of the former Jazz services (?) were the only places it persisted under the LNER. OTTOMH.

So if this was now a spare set in general service the '2' branding should have been removed.

The photo may have been taken just after the set came off the Boat Train working of course.... from memory the LNER replaced the Harwich sets not long before WW 2; did they replace them prior to that?

I don't recall what the other workings which retained Second Class were - is it possible that this stock is from those instead?

A spare boat train set? - given that the three class system continued on boat trains until, I think, 1956, nothing remarkable at all about a spare set stabled outside London. The LNER built new sets as soon as 1924 for use on what were prestige services to replace these old warriors. If they needed to use the displaced stock on other relief services - quite simple to de-classify them by putting up stickers 'For use of passengers travelling third class' on the windows of the second class compartments. Incidentally, didn't the GN suburban service have second class until 1939? Basically third class with a bit of carpet on the floor. Almost as big a con as first class on Southern today- standard class with antimaccasars - a scam.

[52D]

hq1hitchin I see you have mentioned the dreaded pub quiz word in your post, Antimaccasar please refrain from using it. It has come up in quizzes three times when ive been present and i always get laughed at when i tell people what they are. That is till its answer time and i get apologies.

[Malcolm]

Difficult to know where to put these two pictures, so I thought they may be of more use to modellers than anything else as they show what the footplate looked like on C1 Atlantics in the 1920s.

Malcolm

[Caledonian]

Funny thinks I, its a right hand drive, but then looking at the numbers bottom left on the top one the photos have been printed back to front.

Notwithstanding, very nice...

[CVR1865]

I thought the atlantics were right hand drive like the early A1's?

Can you send the C1 pics to hornby so they get the footplate right when they build one, ok off I go back to dream land...

[Caledonian]

I'll leave the driving to the experts but the numbers are certainly reversed.

Picking up on the Hornby wish list... I have to say I'm surprised that they haven't done something in the Atlantic line already given their predilection for "big" locos. Pacifics have been pretty well covered so Atlantics might be something calculated to catch the imagination. The wheelbase of most of them was similar enough to support a multitude of versions, but an NBR Reid Atlantic would do me very nicely.

[Malcolm]

The numbers are reversed on the negs, but the photos certainly are not (you can check by enlarging the images and looking at the gauge above the fireman.
On many old negatives, or plates, the reference numbers are written on the reverse side as that is the matt side and will thus retain the ink, or in the case of a plate that is the easiest side to write on. I can provide many examples of this (see one below).

Malcolm

[industrial]

The numbers are reversed on the negs, but the photos certainly are not (you can check by enlarging the images and looking at the gauge above the fireman.
On many old negatives, or plates, the reference numbers are written on the reverse side as that is the matt side and will thus retain the ink, or in the case of a plate that is the easiest side to write on. I can provide many examples of this (see one below).

Malcolm

The number 3 in the top middle of the cab roof is the right way around as well dos anybody know what that number was there for.

[Malcolm]

Good ones here.

Malcolm

[Caledonian]

Although the NER electric is described as being at Argyle Street (Newcastle, just east of Manors Station) it actually appears to be further east at the skew bridge carrying New Bridge Street. In the background you can just make out the very short masonry tunnel supporting the centre of the bridge. The road going through the "tunnel" is the Quayside branch

[Bill Bedford]

A spare boat train set? - given that the three class system continued on boat trains until, I think, 1956, nothing remarkable at all about a spare set stabled outside London. The LNER built new sets as soon as 1924 for use on what were prestige services to replace these old warriors.

I would have expected that the replaced set would have been shopped shortly after the new stock was put into service. This would enable the sets to be broken up and the stock cascaded into other services.

Incidentally, didn't the GN suburban service have second class until 1939? Basically third class with a bit of carpet on the floor. Almost as big a con as first class on Southern today- standard class with antimaccasars - a scam.

Yes, but the reason for the boat trains having second class was to enable trough bookings from places on the Continent to London. And there was a greater difference between 2nd and 3rd on the continent than here.

[lead_plug]

'Industrial' asks about the purpose of the number displayed on the cab roof of the C1.
I recollect reading somewhere a lifetime ago that this refers to the District owning the locomotive.
These cast iron 'labels' were still in situ in the late 1940's - I would have liked to have collected a sample but they looked as though a gas torch would have been required.
I wondered who would have needed the information displayed, in view of the nice vit. enamel plate bolted inside the cab, identifying the LNER M.P.D. that the loco was allocated to.
Thinking about it now, the GN 'labels' were conveniently positioned for the coaling plant operators, it seems that the issue of the nuggets was a far more serious business in olden times than when we laddo's used to swing the chute and operate the switch that showered the black diamonds liberally around.

[52A]

Although the NER electric is described as being at Argyle Street (Newcastle, just east of Manors Station) it actually appears to be further east at the skew bridge carrying New Bridge Street. In the background you can just make out the very short masonry tunnel supporting the centre of the bridge. The road going through the "tunnel" is the Quayside branch

Yes looks more like Trafalgar Yard to me.

[Malcolm]

Thanks Dudes. I'll alter the photo description to suit. Checked my maps and you are correct 52A.
Trafalgar Yard it is. Nice work.

Malcolm

[lead_plug]

Further on the numbered disc in the C1 photo. (I had to sort this out before retiring to bed!!
R.A.H.Weight, (G.N.R.Locomotives,1947) provides some details.
Pre-1915 the codes were: 1 Doncaster 2 Peterborough
3 London 4 Nottingham 5 Leeds 6 Bradford
7 Grantham 8 Lincoln 9 Retford 10 York G.N.
11 Manchester G.N.
During WW l several Districts were amalgamated, resulting in the range of numbers being decreased to 7.

Unfortunately there is still no clue as to how the discs were utilised in day-to day operations.

Goodnight England.