Titled Train Headboard Colours

[Darwin4975]

Help needed please by those with long memories. Who remembers the background colours of BR locomotive headboards? On the LMR they often had a red background. (I'm referring to the plain cast aluminium type used by BR during the 1950s.) Red was also found on the GWR though I know that the South Wales Pullman was an exception, having a black background.) The background for the Elizabethan was blue -I saw that for myself many times. The Talisman I think was red as shown here in this CCM image. Confirmation required please! Any comments on this subject would be of interest.

[2512silverfox]

That photo of the Talisman looks dangerously like a touched up monochrome to me which would put a question mark over the red?

[Darwin4975]

It certainly IS 'touched up monochrome' as you say. The point is that I remember seeing red-backed headboards such as this on BR in the 50s. Attached is an earlier stage in the colouring process (nothing added to headboard background). If the background had been black it might be expected to have looked darker on the negative -as per the background to the smokebox number. This is why I think that it may not have been black. What's needed here is an authoritative source of information or somebody who actually remembers seeing this headboard.

[65447]

According to Dave Peel's 'Locomotive Headboards The Complete Story' these BR-period cast aluminium headboards were all finished with the background in one of:

Black; Eastern Region Blue; or certain Anglo-Scottish services such as 'The Talisman' also Scottish Region Blue (lighter than ER).

You will have seen red-backed nameplates and possibly red-backed number plates.

[61070]

So far as ECML is concerned I only have colour photographic evidence for Tees-Tyne Pullman, which was black in August 1961.

I have colour photos showing two WCML train headboards (also in 1961), one of which is definitely red: The Emerald Isle Express. The other,
The Royal Scot, has large areas of paint missing and is in deep shadow but appears to be black.

I think the NRM has fairly numerous examples on display.

[Darwin4975]

Thanks Gentlemen. Some useful information here. I will chase up the Peel book.

[69999]

You should also bear in mind that on the East Coast the colour of the headboard differed according to the region of the shed to which it was allocated (usually painted on the rear and visible when carried reversed - 'Return to KX' etc). Thus the 'Elizabethan' headboard carried on a Haymarket A4 had a light blue - Scottish Region - background. The Kings Cross A4's on the 'Elizabethan' - on two of my slides at least had dark blue - Eastern Region backgrounds.
Other Kings Cross headboards appear to be black - or very dirty dark blue - I have examples of 'Flying Scotsman'; 'Anglo Scottish Car Carrier' and Tees Tyne Pullman'.
There were always exceptions - I also have a slide of the northbound 'Flying Scotsman' passing York North shed carrying a light blue headboard.
The Talisman headboard in black and white mode before your photoshopping displays a background colour which although very dark is different to the black front fairing of the loco. I suggest that this colour would be dark blue.
DG
69999

[65447]

Thanks Gentlemen. Some useful information here. I will chase up the Peel book.

Try Postscript Books http://www.psbooks.co.uk/Travel_Transport_Trans_Fts.asp for a soft-cover reduced price copy.

[Darwin4975]

The Peel book is on its way to me in the post.

Thanks for your help (and especially 69999) -the finished work is shown here along with b/w original. I agree that the background must have been the darker shade of blue which I remember as being like that displayed here. In the final image I have toned down the signal box and improved the balance of contrast. What a sight it must have been to behold!