The LNER Encyclopedia

Was at the NRM today and no sign whatsoever of the J69 - does anyone know where it's gone? Wasn't at Shildon two days ago

On loan to Bressingham.

Ah - didn't bother checking the NRM page as assumed - obviously incorrectly - it would be out of date. Seems most of the interesting exhibits at York are elsewhere nowadays (in my pre-grouping presence viewpoint)

Over the last few years I have noticed that the York museum has had less and less locos present many seem to be elsewhere. I can understand them wanting to move locos around but it doesn seem to dilute what is at York. Other than the Great gathering I have found the museum a bit disappointing in recent years which is a shame as I have always loved it.

On the other hand, when I lived in East Anglia, 4 hours from York, I was delighted to find 251 and Henry Oakley at Bressingham and Green Arrow not long after that. These things are part of a National collection and as long as the core isn't weakened too much I don't have a problem with running or stationary locos being sent out to preservation locations or outstations.

What would worry me more was that on my next visit to York, I asked an Explainer where 251 was as I especially wanted to photograph it and he looked blankly at me and didn't know what I was talking about. It does make you wonder what they tell the less knowledgeable when they answer questions.

I agree about the sometimes lack of explaining ability of the explainers. A few years ago I encountered one who didn't know what or where the V2 was!
On the other hand, it is perhaps unreasonable in this 'check box' society to expect people to know too much about particular specialised subjects!

Hope you got some good pictures of 251 at the weekend. Shame there isn't a Z to compare it with, although the one on Grantham did look very good. Shame it reflected the prototype in not liking hills!

The clearance between 251's driving wheels was frightening!

Ay up!

It'd be nice if most of the "Explainers" actually knew what they were talking about. I have heard the Chinese 4-8-4 described as American as a Pacific, Agenoria described as "Rocket", and one who had no idea what the difference is between a Duchess and an A4. Said chap was no better with the diesels - D200 was a "Peak" apparently.

Where do they get them from - a model agency?

Indeed if you mention that Mallard pretty well destroyed it's middle big end on the record run you get a blank look. Or an answer along the lines of...... "Couldn't tell you" or "Wouldn't know about that". Equally if you mention that the original Rocket ran down and mortally wounded the MP William Huskison on the opening day of the Liverpool & Manchester, you get an equally puzzled/blank look.

Personally speaking from what I've heard many of the "explainers" are a pretty poor bunch, who have little knowledge of what's on show or how any of it works.

The one time I spoke to one of the explainers she admitted to me that she was a student on work experience with little experience of railways. She basically had been given a script and told to stand on the Star and explain what the controls did.

At the great gathering they had ex crews on the footplate of the A4's which was much better. They obviously knew what they where talking about for equally obvious reasons. The story about the rude driver who wouldn't say please and how his tea ending up in the firebox via the blower was very amusing. Its a pity they cant make that a more regular occurance.

Im going to have to stick up for the explainers here....

I as once an explainer, although I now work in the conservation/archives team up in Search Engine.

The team is quite large and the knoledge base very broad. To put things into perspective, I drive steam locomotives on several railways (including the NRM site) and also nivolved with mainline steam and new build locomotives. However, I have been asked questions in that job which I could not answer, mainly on social history or other aspects that are not my area of expertise. Trust me, its possible to be asked ANYTHING in that job.

As the team stands at present there are various people involved in firing/driving duties who are explainers and there knowledge is very good, including a couple who have been on the footplate of mainline locos at speed. There are pople who I agree are not railway enthusiasts or locomotive experts, but have strengths in other areas. The job involves doing so many different things from working with children, through to locomotive and carriage access. You cannot be an expert at all of it, and you cannot learn it all in a few days, weeks or months.

However the team does want to learn more. One of my closest friends joined the museum last year after studying history. I gave her a footplate ride during her first week at the museum, shes now passed out as a fireman for the museum regularly visits preserved lines, works on mainline steam tours and is involved in her own railway research (mostly GWR unfortunatly).

Withought the team there would be less access to the collection, dont knock them to hard. Nobody is perfect but they all do try there best.

I await the barrage of comments...

Andy

2392 wrote:Indeed if you mention that Mallard pretty well destroyed it's middle big end on the record run you get a blank look.........

I think that, if you'd trotted that one out during the Great Gathering the response might have been little different. My understanding is that Mallard was back in traffic within a couple of days. If it had "pretty well destroyed its middle big end" it would surely have taken somewhat longer.

Regards,

Vernon

paulmblythe wrote:Over the last few years I have noticed that the York museum has had less and less locos present many seem to be elsewhere. I can understand them wanting to move locos around but it doesn seem to dilute what is at York. Other than the Great gathering I have found the museum a bit disappointing in recent years which is a shame as I have always loved it.

I used to know somebody high up in the NRM echelons and he was constantly bemoaning their "grand plans" so, when I told him of my surprise that the signalling and pointwork display had been removed to make way for a bigger "café" , he just let out a deep sigh. With reference to the previous poster I have visited the Search Engine a couple of times recently and found them to be very helpful.

notascoobie wrote:

2392 wrote:Indeed if you mention that Mallard pretty well destroyed it's middle big end on the record run you get a blank look.........

I think that, if you'd trotted that one out during the Great Gathering the response might have been little different. My understanding is that Mallard was back in traffic within a couple of days. If it had "pretty well destroyed its middle big end" it would surely have taken somewhat longer.

Regards,

Vernon

The big end was sufficently damaged to warrent removing the engine ASAP from the "test train" having limped it into Peterborough or Doncaster and it was replaced by a C1 Large Boilered Atlantic for the rest of the journey back to the 'Cross.

[[/quote]

The big end was sufficently damaged to warrent removing the engine ASAP from the "test train" having limped it into Peterborough or Doncaster and it was replaced by a C1 Large Boilered Atlantic for the rest of the journey back to the 'Cross.[/quote]

It may well be that the "knackered Mallard" account comes from the exasperated detractors (GWR Castles are Kings etc) but IIRC from my reading, the engine was removed "as a precaution." Now, it's very possible that the Press Office was in charge, but the engine's early return to normal service indicates either that there was nothing seriously awry or that they had teams off fitters working 24H to make it so.......

After all the years we will possibly never know for sure, but my money’s with SNG!

Regards,

Vernon

ahardy wrote:Im going to have to stick up for the explainers here....

I as once an explainer, although I now work in the conservation/archives team up in Search Engine.

The team is quite large and the knoledge base very broad. To put things into perspective, I drive steam locomotives on several railways (including the NRM site) and also nivolved with mainline steam and new build locomotives. However, I have been asked questions in that job which I could not answer, mainly on social history or other aspects that are not my area of expertise. Trust me, its possible to be asked ANYTHING in that job.

As the team stands at present there are various people involved in firing/driving duties who are explainers and there knowledge is very good, including a couple who have been on the footplate of mainline locos at speed. There are pople who I agree are not railway enthusiasts or locomotive experts, but have strengths in other areas. The job involves doing so many different things from working with children, through to locomotive and carriage access. You cannot be an expert at all of it, and you cannot learn it all in a few days, weeks or months.

However the team does want to learn more. One of my closest friends joined the museum last year after studying history. I gave her a footplate ride during her first week at the museum, shes now passed out as a fireman for the museum regularly visits preserved lines, works on mainline steam tours and is involved in her own railway research (mostly GWR unfortunatly).

Withought the team there would be less access to the collection, dont knock them to hard. Nobody is perfect but they all do try there best.

I await the barrage of comments...

Andy

Sounds reasonable to me Andy: - A compromise between having explainers who know everything about everything (no such person), those who are willing, able and enthusiastic to help visitors and/or are very good at 'meeting' the public in a friendly way but are in the early stages of knowledge acquisition, or an option of not allowing people to be Explainers and meet the public until they have spent several years behind the scenes learning about the museum's exhibits and railways in general.