The LNER Encyclopedia

I'm really looking for some advice as to how I'd go about finding out which were the last Steam trains out of Lincoln Central.

As a very young boy I remember being taken on a train trip from Lincoln Central to Peterborough by my parents to attend a christening, and although I'd have had to have been pretty young at the time, I have a distinct memory of the train be hauled by a steam locomotive as I remember seeing the steam and smoke billowing back over the train as it navigated a long right hand bend.

As I born at the tail end of 1963 I have to assume the trip took place either late in 1966 or in 1967, as any earlier and I would most likely have been too young to remember it.

I think it's too much to think I might discover the actual train/locomotive, but as steam was coming to an end and LNER were using Diesels by then, I can't believe there would have been too many occasions when trains were hauled by steam locomotives at that time.

If anyone could direct me as to where I might start looking for information regarding the last steam locomotives out of Lincoln Central I'd be very grateful.

__________
Rob

That is a very difficult question, Rob. I suspect that the last steam hauled train through Lincoln Central would be a goods service, probably to/from Scunthorpe or Immingham.

Local passenger services in Lincolnshire were some of the first to go over to DMU operation in the mid-50s, and even the longer distance trains (York-Yarmouth, Harwich-Manchester ) were diesel by the end of 1963.

I don't want to cast doubt on your childhood memories, but a steam hauled passenger service from Lincoln in the direction of Peterborough by 1967 would have been the ultimate in rarities, except for a special hauled by 4472.

Sorry that I can't be more optimistic.

G'Day Gents

I can't quite see, steam on a passenger train at that time, although anything is possible, but it is more likely to be a diesel locomotive with steam heat, that would give the impression of a steam loco, diesel locos can give out a fair amount of 'smoke' when the driver opens up, the Deltic locomotives, were famous for the amount of 'clag' they gave off, but I do hope you find out it was a run down B1, that you traveled behind

manna

Thanks manna and strang steel for your replies.

I've checked with my mother and she confirms we actually took a train from Lincoln Central to Peterborough, and then changed trains for an onward journey to Kings Lynn. She also thinks it was probably during the second half of 1965 or the first half of 1966, so a little earlier than I first thought.

I suppose there's a possibility it could have been a diesel but I've such a strong image of the steam steaming back over the carriages I'm pretty certain it wasn't.

I suspect it might have been a steam loco standing in for a diesel that had failed, and of course it could have been between Peterborough and Kings Lynn rather than between Lincoln and Peterborough, possibly making the use of a steam loco a little more likely.

Rob.

lincsrob63 wrote:...
I suspect it might have been a steam loco standing in for a diesel that had failed, and of course it could have been between Peterborough and Kings Lynn rather than between Lincoln and Peterborough, possibly making the use of a steam loco a little more likely.

I'd say less likely, TBH. Two reasons - once an area was fully dieselised, steam allocations were moved away and servicing for them tended to be removed or at best minimal; and East Anglia was one of the first areas on BR to be dieselised.

lincsrob63 wrote:Thanks manna and strang steel for your replies.

I've checked with my mother and she confirms we actually took a train from Lincoln Central to Peterborough, and then changed trains for an onward journey to Kings Lynn. She also thinks it was probably during the second half of 1965 or the first half of 1966, so a little earlier than I first thought.

I suppose there's a possibility it could have been a diesel but I've such a strong image of the steam steaming back over the carriages I'm pretty certain it wasn't.

I suspect it might have been a steam loco standing in for a diesel that had failed, and of course it could have been between Peterborough and Kings Lynn rather than between Lincoln and Peterborough, possibly making the use of a steam loco a little more likely.

Rob.

Yes, 1965 is a possibility for a late steam substitution. However, your route is now rather confusing.

Lincoln to Peterborough and a change for Kings Lynn, suggests a trip via Newark on a Cleethorpes service. I think that late in 1965 they had been re-routed that way after the opening of the new curve at Newark. Maybe the steam loco came off at Peterborough?

It does seem a rather roundabout way to get to Kings Lynn, but maybe there were other reasons for that. I would have thought Lincoln to Ely on the York-Yarmouth or equivalent, and change there for a Kings Lynn service, was a more logical route but who knows? Maybe the Beeching effect was to try and divert all passenger traffic away from Lincolnshire lines?

When I get a few minutes, I will dig out some monthly magazines and see if I can find any report of what would have been quite a rare event by that time.

Thanks John.

My Mother has come back to me since my last post and said that now she's had time to think about it properly the train from Peterborough was actually to Lowestoft, and not King's Lynn as she first indicated.

I don't know whether that would make more sense route wise, but interestingly my Mother also remembers one of the services being being hauled by a steam locomotive.

Rob.

I have discovered that the last steam locomotive to work a regular passenger service from Peterborough was 61042 on 3rd January 1965. However, that worked the afternoon service to Grimsby which I believe was still using the E Lincs route via Spalding and Boston.

Because of the period I tend to think it's more likely to have been a steam loco standing in for a failed Diesel than a regular service.

On 12th March 1965 61303 worked the 0700 Lowestoft to Birmingham and return working.

On 23rd January 61018 was noted on the 1030 Lowestoft to York, at Lincoln.

The September RO mentions that the 0930 York-Yarmouth (and afternoon return service) remains diagrammed for steam as far as Lincoln in July, with 61021 on the 10th and 61173 on the 17th.

Unfortunately, later copies of the magazine do not say when steam finished on this working, but I suspect it must have been at the end of the summer timetable.

However, this service did not run via Peterborough. There is little other information that I have found so far.

lincsrob63 wrote:Because of the period I tend to think it's more likely to have been a steam loco standing in for a failed Diesel than a regular service.

The problem with the theory, is that both Lincoln and Peterborough sheds had closed to steam by the end of Jan 1965, so unless the failure occurred close to a surviving steam depot, there would not be any to use as a replacement.

I do not like to cast doubt on the memories of your mother, but I just wonder if she is confusing two events (with the Peterborough reference)? A failure of the booked diesel on the York-Yarmouth from Lincoln is much more of a possibility, and the rostered B1 worked through (maybe) to March.

I think it very unlikely she's confusing the event as firstly it was a trip made to my uncle's wedding, so such a memorable event isn't one that'd be easily forgotten, and secondly she made railway journey's so rarely that there probably wouldn't be another to confuse it with, hence why she remembers this journey so well I suspect.

Although she can't remember the precise date she says it was sometime during the summer (as you'd expect for a wedding). Also, the journey was definitely Lincoln - Peterborough - Lowestoft.

Apparently there was some interest/excitement among passengers at the train being headed by a steam locomotive, which I suspect could have been because of the rarity of steam by then.

In the summer of most years during the 1960s, the York-Yarmouth was extended to Lowestoft (and often in the other direction to Newcastle).

Lowestoft bound services from Peterborough in those days would have departed from Peterborough East, and so a transfer would have been necessary from North to East stations.

Just after midday at Lincoln there would have been a through service to Lowestoft, and no need to change trains at all.

For me and my brother, we saw our last BR steam in Lincoln, I've always thought that this was in 1966 and the above posts seem to confirm this. I believe it may have been round the middle of 1966 and the reason the family were in Lincoln was possibly to attend my grandfathers funeral.

We must have turned up at Central Station towards the middle of the day and our expectations of seeing steam were low, but we did. A filthy B1 came in from the west with a passenger train (I'm thinking it may have been a holiday extra for some reason) The crew looked equally filthy, the only clean bits I remember were white patches round their eyes. I think they topped up with water and left in not too much hurry in an easterly direction. We thought that was it until a while later (sometime in the afternoon) a very tidy Black 5 trundled in light from the east in the middle roads and stopped to wait for the High street gates to open, it then moved off in that direction. I've always assumed it had arrived at St.Marks and was off to the LNER shed for servicing. There may also have been a dead WD 2-8-0 over in or near the coal yard, but I'm not sure about this.

If anyone can confirm and/or add to this, it would be greatly appreciated.

Chris

Hardy wrote:For me and my brother, we saw our last BR steam in Lincoln, I've always thought that this was in 1966 and the above posts seem to confirm this. I believe it may have been round the middle of 1966 and the reason the family were in Lincoln was possibly to attend my grandfathers funeral.

We must have turned up at Central Station towards the middle of the day and our expectations of seeing steam were low, but we did. A filthy B1 came in from the west with a passenger train (I'm thinking it may have been a holiday extra for some reason) The crew looked equally filthy, the only clean bits I remember were white patches round their eyes. I think they topped up with water and left in not too much hurry in an easterly direction. We thought that was it until a while later (sometime in the afternoon) a very tidy Black 5 trundled in light from the east in the middle roads and stopped to wait for the High street gates to open, it then moved off in that direction. I've always assumed it had arrived at St.Marks and was off to the LNER shed for servicing. There may also have been a dead WD 2-8-0 over in or near the coal yard, but I'm not sure about this.

If anyone can confirm and/or add to this, it would be greatly appreciated.

Chris

Is it possible that your visit to Lincoln was in September 1965? Class 5s 44824 and 44828 may have gone through Lincoln Central on their way from Leeds to Skegness.

The difficulty with 1966 is that, by the middle of the year, all sheds in Lincolnshire had closed to steam. Lincoln MPD closed in January 1964. I dare say water was still available, but I'm unsure whether any other facilities were still in operation. A file that I have of locomotive movements in Lincolnshire (source unknown) notes 44828 on 4 September 1965 as probably the last steam loco to visit Skegness.