GNR Seat colours question

[Robpulham]

Hi All, I currently have a couple of GNR coaches in the line up and I have got to the interiors of the first one and was wondering what colours the seats would likely be?

I was erring on the side of dark blue for first class and deep red/maroon for third class. Could anyone offer anything different or confirm that I am in the right ball park. These are 7mm scale coaches so the seats are quite visible.

Thanks in advance.

[jwealleans]

As far as I recall, that is what has been used in the restored composite at the Severn Valley. I believe the dark red is actually red and black patterns - I think I've seen someone do this in 7mm by painting the seats red and then spraying black through a mesh. I think the red and blue moquette in the SVR one is to a later pattern, unless one of the LNERCA chaps on here can throw a better informed light?

[1H was 2E]

Here's an interior of a 3rd class compartment of the GN coach (2701) on the Severn Valley. I think that some care was taken to be authentic but compromises may have to have been made.

[notascoobie]

Good evening,

Just a point. By the time the GNR carriages went for scrap or preservation they would have been several decades old and there would have been a number of refurbishments. Presumably these included new upholstery at least once (?). Surely the colour of GNR carriage seats is bounded by period as well as origin. The GNR carriage on the SVR might be completely accurate but, surely, only for a specific period.

Michael Harris' "Great Northern Railway and East Coast Joint Stock from 1905" has specifications for interior decor for various carriage types at different times. If you want to get more specific I'll see what Harris says...... for GNR days!

Regards,

Vernon

[Woodcock29]

Hi Everyone

Photos of seats in 3rd and 1st respectively in GN Composite No 2701 a few months ago when I was in the UK.

Keep up the good work Robpulham as I have quite a number of D & S GN coaches to build.

Woodcock29

[Robpulham]

Thanks All,

Vernon, I have the Harris book but hadn't thought of looking in there because I found so little info on the D114 when I looked previously - Green Tapestry for first class and red/black for 3rd in GNR days. I am modelling the LNER period but it isn't beyond the realms of possibility that it still had GNR upholstery, particularly in the 1920's

[notascoobie]

Hi Rob,

I'm glad you're sorted. I think that the specification in Harris is probably right for the 1920s. After that, as the stock moved away from premier services, I guess it would be whatever they had spare! I don't know how accurate the preserved stock is for GNR days. The photos showed nicely upholstered seats in well restored compartments but, without a time machine, we will probably never know.

Regards,

Vernon

[1H was 2E]

When I posted my photo for the sake of brevity I did not fully explain the coach's history. It is likely that most, if not all, the interior has been re-created in its restoration, because after passenger service it became a camping coach and, after that, was in departmental use. In later years, coaches were trimmed at intervals of about 10 years due to wear and tear, and to keep up with interiors fashions.

Sadly, virtually no pre-group or even pre-nationalisation coaches in preservation were bought straight out of service. I bought an LMS coach direct from service, but this was a 1946-built coach in 1968; at that time, the emphasis in preservation was solely in buying steam locomotives with no thought given to what they would haul, or how people could be charged to enjoy them.

Those who restore carriages from departmental condition deserve considerable thanks; I myself gave up, tired of enthusiasts standing (in their shoes!) on the seats to lean out of the windows; damaging the drop lights by not understanding how they opened/closed etc. etc.. Recent journeys on immaculate vehicles show nothing has changed, for example damaging the strings of the luggage racks in a Midland Railway 4 wheeler (restored from a grounded body used as a shed for about a century) by climbing onto it, or dogs chewing/scratching away. Refreshment trollies also leave their scars.

[notascoobie]

Good evening,

My comments posted above did not seek to detract from the marvellous work of the carriage preservationists. It's marvellous to see restored carriages and the LNER teak set on the NYMR is fantastic. What carriages were actually like back "in the day" is open to discussion.

However, accracy in historical modelling is something else. I'm not saying I'm there but I like to get it right if I can.

Good evening .... in a non-judgemental manner

Regards,

Vernon

[1H was 2E]

Notascoobie I hadn't taken the slightest offence at your post. My post was to explain why it's not possible to use a restored carriage as evidence of exact condition when in service: very few carriages were preserved i.e. bought in out-of-service condition and carefully conserved (and, if they had, would obviously have represented the condition towards the end of service life); most had to be restored. My general whingeing is perhaps a bit of a hobby-horse for me; and I didn't even mention one of my other dislikes, namely the preponderance of Royal vehicles in the list preserved coaches right down to the days of Clapham Museum, and even NRM York seems to toe this line to an extent.
As an aside, it's interesting to compare my photo of the third compartment in 2701 with Woodcock29's; the red comes out as very different shades. Mine was taken en route between Bridgnorth and Hampton on a grey Spring day (i.e. in open countryside under a cloudy sky). and possibly Woodcock29's was taken under different light. If they were of two different vehicles it would be reasonable to believe that the moquette itself was different. Such is the subjectivity of colour, and the difficulty of re-creating it.

[60044]

The LNERCA's restored teak coaches on the NYMR all have the correct upholstery for their "as built" periods, using replica materials. Privately owned GN saloon 3087 and open third (now restaurant first) 43654 do notas they are not in 2as built" condition. As further coaches are restored it is hoped to commission batches of other known LNER patterns.