most will probably be aware by now that I'm building a large scale model of 4472, by chance i was reading a post on an engineering forum that listed in detail the tools kept on a particular locomotive and it got me thinking that I could do with such a list for my build. So my question is where would I look to find a detailed list of tools that would be used on the Flying Scotsman and in which lockers would the various tools be kept? Is this info out there somewhere, so far I have failed to find it, if it's available in some drawings or just an itinerary that may be held at a museum somewhere it would help me greatly to know where to look.
Hoping someone here can help, one of the good things about builds like mine is they take many years so at least I have more time to research things like this, a guiding hand in the right direction would be a great help, I'm researching so much about this loco currently that my head is spinning...
Most of the tools carried were standard throughout the LNER.
Fire irons: Clinker shovel, straight and bent darts.
Locos with rocker bars have rocker lever and ashpan lever.
In the main locker: 2 gauge glasses with washers, shifting spanner, tube of detonators and red flag. Oil bottles for engine oil, cylinder oil, parrafin and colza oil for gauge glass lamp and oil can.
Bucket,hand brush,coal hammer. Oh, and don't forget the firing shovel!
Footplate ex Botanic Gardens & Bradford GN (Bowling)
Yorkshire born & bred
that's great.. thanks for that.. is there anywhere that i can find pictures of these tools and do you know which lockers individual tools were most likely to be placed in or did they not have a proper home?
I certainly have never seen pictures of loco tools but others may.
The clinker shovel had to be long enough to reach the tube plate with about 3 ft clear of the firehole door. The straight dart,or pricker as it's called elswhere needed to be the same length, the bent dart was just that, a straight one bent over as near 90 degrees.
Oil cans detonators etc would usually go in the smaller locker leaving the deepest one for clothes,food etc. As most of these engines had rostered crews then it would be up to their ( drivers) choice as to where things went. I won't insult you by describing a bucket except to say it was usually very clean inside and out, firemans job.
Footplate ex Botanic Gardens & Bradford GN (Bowling)
Yorkshire born & bred
I keep going back to my firing days. Like many firemen at Botanic I had my own firing shovel, handbrush and slaker pipe in my locker. These tools would then be duplicated on board.
With regard to the post by Giner on Colza. Because the gauge glass lamp was hung on the fittings at the boiler face, paraffin would vaporise at that temperature with the possible risk of explosion. Colza did not vaporise at those temperatures.
Footplate ex Botanic Gardens & Bradford GN (Bowling)
Yorkshire born & bred
Kind Sirs, I was a coolie at Newport 51B and we had to scrounge off other engines for our gear or when oiling five for a shifts work.
Slag shovel -long and pricker same length sometimes if you were lucky you got a shorter slag shovel as well...bent dart they were at the firedroppers cabin we didn't carry them. We didn't have our own firing shovel anyway if you got a K3 you needed a short handled firing shovel. I believe coal hammer was mentioned but also coal boards were needed to hold the coal back in the tender. WE did have home made wood elbow rests to slot into the side window ledges
Drop bars we would be so lucky, if you had a B16/1 on the curved pit the side doors were too tight and you had to throw the slag/cinders/fire out through the opened cab side window !!
Tool boxes the dirty oily one you kept the two oil bottles and feeder and gland key and gauge glass key...shifting key ?.
Canister of dets the correct colour-O-R-G-G-Y-B-W-for their year ie a seven year cycle. Two red flags included.
These got replaced regular-the red flags-as the guard used to tear them in strips for tail flags on the last wagon of our trains-tail lamp hung on the coupling hook in hours of darkness.
We filled the gauge lamp up at the stores with 'Rape Oil' as mentioned paraffin would expand and ignite. We sometimes resorted to paraffin and a touch of engine oil to thicken it-it worked-. Hand brush, I gather our GWR (spit) enginemen had a long handled sweeping brush ?? Don't forget a baffle plate and the main line enginemen had a hand lamp to return the guards train following complete signal .. green side to side from the moving train. That is he was safely ensconced in his van.
Jim brodie
Oh dear, it seems that you had it a bit rough at your depot. when I was a pased cleaner,I used to get sent to Hull, Dairycoates and it was a similar tale there. At Hull Botanic it was a passenger depot and we had our own engines with lock and chain for the fire irons and oil cupboard locker big wooden tag with the key attached and engine No burned on.
The original post was regarding 4472 and even at the height of its working life, that engine was pampered. No scrounging for gear, no crappy coal and certainly a better ride than a K3!!
Footplate ex Botanic Gardens & Bradford GN (Bowling)
Yorkshire born & bred
this info is great.. I'm learning more with each post for which I'm most grateful....can anyone guide me to were i might learn more about each of these tools...pictures or drawings would be best from which i can scale from...because I'm building in such a large scale I can make all of these parts no matter how small they may seem. I'm a model engineer , not an ex railwayman so although I recognise some of the items listed many are unknowns.
Again many thanks for the input from all concerned... this forum has helped me greatly over the last couple of years and i'm sure I'll be pestering for technical answers for many more years while I'm building 4472.
You forgot to brush in the list but someone else has mentioned iit was always your own personal brush but never had my own shovel,
Only time I took one with me when we had to give our V2 over to G.W.R. men at Leicester and the fireman took his with him, God knows how he was going to fire a V2 with his broad shovel but he insisted it went with him.
And don't forget the slacker pipe
Last edited by Boris on Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
bricam5 wrote:I keep going back to my firing days. Like many firemen at Botanic I had my own firing shovel, handbrush and slaker pipe in my locker. These tools would then be duplicated on board.
With regard to the post by Giner on Colza. Because the gauge glass lamp was hung on the fittings at the boiler face, paraffin would vaporise at that temperature with the possible risk of explosion. Colza did not vaporise at those temperatures.
Thanks for the clarification on the Colza oil, I've never heard of that name before. My 'healthy' note there was to the fact that Colza is another word for Canola or Rapeseed (as James mentioned), much better for cooking with than yer regular vegetable oil. In this neck of the woods there's hundreds of square miles of bright yellow Canola fields.
Dear curious Sir,
I can photo and Jpeg the gear you are after when I do my fortnightly visit to the MPD at Grosmont...NYMR...after my broken wrist has healed ! but that's another story. I'll take a ruler so you can identify sizes from the photo.
Newport was a tough shed but the upbringing did me in good stead in later life when riding with Cockneys who somehow knew my pedigree and would comment about us working loose coupled trains on bonus working and permissive block. Also no block lines down fairly steep gradients from the Durham coalfields when the signalman would indicate how many were going down the bank in front of you. They preferred their fully fitted and all boards clear for them. The regular comment though was "have you got plenty of paper hankies for your nose bleeds as we go faster than 25mph. Now West Hartlepool men when coming upto a 15mph slack would put steam on to get upto that speed !!-I Jest, it was 10 mph. I once managed to tease a V.I.P riding upto Edinburgh (New Zealand ) but said we went faster than 60mph however by chance I had my passport with me and after leaving Berwick I said to the haymkt driver I'll leave my passport on the desk for the customs man (Deltic) when we get stopped at the border.
What a panic and the crew had to look out the side windows so he wouldn't see them laughing.
Own shovel brush and slacker pipe ? What if you got relieved ? the engine would still need a slacker pipe and us North Yorkies might have had big hands but the nutty slack would have dirtied our pingy nails.
Happy daze. Jim Brodie..You know what they say. "Big hands big
that is very kind of you sir...thanks to the help given I'm getting more confident now in being able to find the info needed to make these tools, many of which like I said are foreign to me.
Own shovel brush and slacker pipe ? What if you got relieved
As I said in an earlier post, Botanic Gardens was a passenger shed and your shift was worked out on the same (your) engine. Some of the local turns involved acting as station pilot after a local run plus stabling your engine at the end of your eight hours.Relief was not an option. I understand that with goods working that could involve relief crews.
I was glad when my move up the links took me to distance trips off like Hell there and back and dump your engine on the pit for the "Dusthole" men.
You can get just as dirty in the East Riding as well as the North!
Footplate ex Botanic Gardens & Bradford GN (Bowling)
Yorkshire born & bred
