The LNER Encyclopedia

I rode behind LNER 4472 Flying Scotsman on Thursday from York to Scarborough and back on "The Sundowner" as part of the RIDE THE LEGEND trips, which are to raise money for the locomotive's extensive £600,000 overhaul next year, which will keep it in service on the main line for another good 10 years or so.

The journey was very nice and the locomotive is a fantastic machine, despite those rather ugly smoke deflectors that it's carrying.

The same day I had been to the National Railway Museum in York, and I saw Green Arrow resting in the workshops.

All in all, a very nice visit to York, and I wouldn't mind riding some more of these railtours, as well as spotting them.

Hi Skarloey - welcome to the forums!

I was at the NRM a couple of weeks ago, and have pictures of Green Arrow with the bits lying on the workshop floor. Unfortunately we missed the workshop talk so we didn't hear the full story. Did you catch anything?

I've heard a couple of different reports, but it sounds like the middle big end failed at speed (on the Scarborough run). I think the cylinder cover was blown off, and looking at the bits, the cylinder cover did look a right-off. Did you see the main centre con-rod?? Bent and twisted from the failure.

Didn't see Flying Scotsman. The only engine I saw in steam was the Beattie Well Tank. Flying Scotsman must have been elsewhere - perhaps on the way to Scarborough.

Have quite a few pictures of LNER engines from my trip and I hope to put them on the website this weekend.

The smoke deflectors: I hear it ran with them removed last week! They were fitted during service days - many of the A3s were fitted with them late in their BR lives, and fixed a long running smoke problem. During the 1920s and 1930s, the LNER tried various smoke deflection strategies but none worked.
Later Pacifics had their own solutions (cf. the Peppercorn Pacifics) and even the A4s were okay due to a subtle hollow near the chimney. From what I remember, the A3 "German-style" smoke deflectors proved better than the larger deflectors fitted to the Peppercorns.

Richard

I, too was at the NRM on Thursday 1st Sept - but not to see the Flying Scotsman.

It was the day the NRM hosted my northern book launch for my new book Railwaywomen. My entourage had a stall, exhibition and film show as well as CDROM and hardback copies of the book. Pressmen covered the event and we were called to many photo-shoots, mostly with engines in the background.

The book, which has already been widely acclaimed, covers the history of women in all grades of railway work from 1830 to the present day. All companies are mentioned and so of course that includes the NER/LNER. The book has been compiled using a mixture of personal anecdotes, official documents and press cuttings, so it isn't stuffy or overly academic, nor is it too anecdotal.

With a combination of humour and seriousness I hope I've made it an interesting read for a general audience. Here's what's been said by reviewers so far.

“An unbiased, academically excellent and very entertaining work of history. Beautifully written from what has clearly been meticulous research. The author’s concern for honesty and justice shines forth.”
Adrian Vaughan

“An entirely new contribution to railway history, this important book fills a large gap in the literature, and is enriched by valuable oral testimony.”
Dr Terry Gourvish, LSE

“Fascinating reading. Helena’s style keeps you interested and wanting to read more. Strongly recommended.” Pat Hammond

“Such tales, such adventures and such
achievements against the odds. Heroically researched, illuminatingly written and entertaining. I loved it.” Dale Spender

“I am very impressed.” George Ottley

“Superb documentary evidence. Future historians will see this work as the definitive history of women in the railway industry.”
Dr Gillian Reynolds, Coventry University

“This authoritative account of the contribution that women have made to Britain’s railways is long overdue. It was worth waiting for.”
Grahame Boyes, Railway & Canal Historical Society

“A wonderfully complete picture of railwaywomen in war and peace.” Gail Braybon, historian

“Meticulous archival research. Traces the trials, tribulations and triumphs of women’s attempts to earn a fair and decent living in this male-dominated industry.”
Dr Gerry Holloway, Sussex University

“This book is a joy to read. The women are brought to life in a welter of colourful anecdotes. Seldom has serious social research been so thoroughly entertaining.” Richard Elmore

“The definitive guide to the place of women
in the history of Britain’s railways.” The Argus

The book is a 384-page hardback with over 90 pages of photographs.
You can purchase a signed copy direct from me for £25. I accept cash, cheques, Paypal and bank transfer.

Helena

I heard about the Green Arrow's little mishap over the internet, but when I saw her, she looked liked they'd fixed her up nice. She was in with LMS Duchess of Hamilton and SR Cheltenham, for their clean up before going to Crewe works open day, which is on today and tomorrow.

That's good! The chattering I saw on Usenet was very negative - but it always is when Green Arrow, Flying Scotsman or Mallard are in the news.

So they're moving them around a lot then. A month ago when I was there, Duchess of Hamilton was nice and shiny alongside Mallard as you walk in to the Main Hall. They made an impressive pair.

Cheltenham was in the workshop, although she needed a clean. There was also a Peak diesel hiding at the back.


Richard

About the Flying Scotsman and it's smoke deflectors, here's basically the news:

LNER No. 4472 Ex A1 Currently A3 condition "Flying Scotsman" underwent a weeks trialling on it's usual York-Scarborough "Ride The Legend" runs running without her german style smoke deflectors. After numerous comments about the current un-authentic condtion the LNER legend is in, with it's german smoke delfectors and double blastpipe chimney in LNER apple green livery......and condition only held by one or two of the A3's during LNER era ( the appliance of the smoke deflectors and double chimney appliances happenned to few A3's just before British Railway was formed ). So due to the comments, the NRM decided to hold a series of tests on the locomotive, removing the delfectors in a week where the weather and climate conditions were varied and could change instantly. Unfortunately, the tests proved bad, showing that in the current double blastpipe condition the smoke deflectors are required for safe running.

It is hoped that in the next overhaul of 4472, which commences at the end of this year, shall relieve Flying Scotsman of the "dumbo ears" by returning 4472 to authentic A3 condtion...no smoke deflectors or double blastpipe chimney either. Upon returning from overhaul, it is planned that 4472 shall be out shopped in British Railways Brunswick Green livery with single chimney and no elephant ears. This guise shall be kept on 4472 ( then 60103 ) for only a year when it shall be repainted back into it's former glory of LNER apple green livery. A condition which it has not been seen in since possibly the early 90's.

That's your 4472 trivial answered until 2007 lol

Thanks for the update Jonathon, and welcome to the LNER forums!

Sometimes it seems that whatever the NRM does, it will be criticised.
And whatever anyone does to 4472, it will be wrong. I remember Pete Waterman on a TV programme over here in the US, talking about the hate mail he received from vicars when they painted it black!

I think we all think of it in Doncaster green, but I have to admit that it does look smart in Brunswick green. As a general livery, the BR express blue always looks good. If they ever dared to use that, it would keep the Thomas/Awdry fans happy.

My understanding is that BR found the 'german' smoke deflectors worked - and solved a long standing problem with the A1s/A3s.


Richard

Skarloey wrote:I heard about the Green Arrow's little mishap over the internet, but when I saw her, she looked liked they'd fixed her up nice.

Don't know how you got that impression, there still in the investigation process and have not started to fix her yet. They have a spare con rod which just happens to be for the internal motion, the problem area is the internalcyclinder as this was already a well documented problem on Green Arrow before the incident. Only time and more importantly money will tell if this legend can be repaired.