ICI tank wagon

[Stamfordian]

On the basis that the North bank of the Tees is firmly in LNER territory, I dare to ask for suggestions as to what the wagon in this picture is intended to carry:
http://picturestocktonarchive.wordpress ... rs-at-ici/

[jwealleans]

As the comments say, Ammonia or Caustic Soda were the best known flows although they did have a large number of different tankers for specific traffics. I'd have to get a book or two out and do some digging to have a chance of a positive ID. That's a heavy beast, though, with a 22T tare weight.

[52D]

My initial thoughts were brine, she seems too big for a Sulphuric acid tank.

[notascoobie]

Looking at the picture I think the end bands indicate dangerous chemicals but what about the star? I thought they were associated with petroleum traffic. I'm afraid my knowledge in this area is rather thin.

[52D]

Doesn't the star have something to do with running speed?

[52A]

Wagons carrying 3 stars may be conveyed on braked freight or passenger trains.
Wagons carrying 2 stars may be conveyed on braked freight trains.
Wagons carrying 1 star must only be conveyed on freight trains not exceeding an average speed of 35MPH start to stop.
Unstarred wagons must not exceed an average speed of 25MPH loaded or 35MPH when empty.
General Appendix 1947.

[Platform10]

Wasn't there a cunning plan for colour coding chemical wagons?
White for alkalines or caustics
Red for acids
Silver for petroleums
Black for oils
Some tanks had a red solebar, but I'm not sure what that indicated.

[61962]

That's a heavy beast, though, with a 22T tare wei

If the tank was 1" thick steel then it would weigh 7 or 8 tons plus say 6 for the underframe gives us 14. So what made up the other 8? Could it have been lead lined perhaps for nitric acid. Concentrated sulphuric acid can be stored in steel tanks, so it probably wasn't that.

Eddie

[cambois]

I was wondering about a tare of 22 tones!! 14 tons is a heavy 2 axle wagon so another 8 tons for the tank lining might be right. It also looks a relatively large diameter tank - so a relatively low density product. My chemistry is struggling with that at the moment. But on the north side of the Tees at that time it is likely to be something inorganic so acid might well be the case.

[Platform10]

I agree, the rather high tare weight may be accounted for by lining of the tank but also there would probably be heating coils for transport of caustic soda. Liquid caustic is highly corrosive and there may even have been glass lining inside the tank. I am pretty certain the picture shows a caustic soda tank. They were required (and probably still are) to carry an inscription "exclusive use for caustic soda". Looking at the picture, behind the group the plate starts off ICI (E.... and further on can be seen TIC.
Or is that a guess too far?

[Greedy Boards]

The absence of the ICI roundel logo would infer a 1930s/40s photograph, when my grandfather was Distribution Manager for the Salt Union at Port Clarence, and they were then taken over by ICI in 1937. The north bank of the Tees witnessed coal tar and associated chemicals as secondary bi-products from the coke ovens that fed the steel works, once owned by the Bell Brothers, but officially becoming part of Dorman Long in 1923, when Bell Brothers finally ceased trading.

Salt or brine works production on the north bank of the Tees commenced with the Bell Brothers in 1882, but financial problems lead them to sell up first to Brunner Mond, and then to the Salt Union, which was formed locally in 1896, as the Durham Division for the Cheshire-based parent company. My grandfather worked for both the Salt Union and ICI, and oversaw the closure of the Clarence Salt Works in 1952, and the Tennants Salt Works in 1956, when he retired from ICI.

Not too sure of my chemistry, but the tanks would infer a liquid and not a solid, so brine would be appropriate, as I think that caustic soda was transported as a solid - I await points of view to the contrary!

Regards

Greedy Boards

P.S. Have contacted the web-site for a copy of the image, as this is the first that I have seen for this activity, and always assumed that freight would be via the Salt Union vans that you can get fron Dapol at the moment.

[Greedy Boards]

Just done a web search for caustic soda tank wagons, and I stand corrected by my own hasty research, groan!

Caustic soda wagons did exist, but they were much darker in colour. A web-site by Paul Bartlett on ICI tank wagons has a later ICI tank wagon, but in very similar livery. Light, possibly white background with a black star, and a red hoop signifies liquified ammonia, and would originate from the ICI Billingham Works.

Back to the Family Tree

Regards

Mike