Teesside B1s

[Tom F]

I have a photo of a Thornaby B1 in 1959 Working south through York Station. Another book states that these locos would work into Dringhouses yard and then be replaced with another loco and crew. By 1959 would this have always been a loco change or is it likely that these engines could have worked further South to Doncaster?

[Boris]

Sheffield crews worked into York Yard South with a load of waggons for mixed various North bound destinations, then used the triangle of tracks to turn before parking in the old loco shed at the South of the station for 'snap'

After which they went L.E. to Dringhouses and picked up another train for Sheffield

I assume that Dringhouses sorted trains arriving from the North into trains for various other destinations.

So no doubt the same applied the other way the N.E. crews would go back to York Yard for a northbound load.

[Tom F]

Sheffield crews worked into York Yard South with a load of waggons for mixed various North bound destinations, then used the triangle of tracks to turn before parking in the old loco shed at the South of the station for 'snap'

After which they went L.E. to Dringhouses and picked up another train for Sheffield

I assume that Dringhouses sorted trains arriving from the North into trains for various other destinations.

So no doubt the same applied the other way the N.E. crews would go back to York Yard for a northbound load.

Thanks Boris. So on that basis, would you be thinking that a Thornaby B1 wouldn't work through to Doncaster? THe WTT is at a friends which will indicate how long the stop was which I guess the longer the stop the more likely the change of loco.

[cambois]

In the early 1980s Darlington men only worked to Dringhouses and likewise Hull, Immingham and Frodingham men only worked in from the south and did not go north of York. . I think the same happened with Durham Coast MGRs for Yorkshire Power stations. I suspect it was a real boundary point between Yorkshire and the North east for a very long time

[Tom F]

In the early 1980s Darlington men only worked to Dringhouses and likewise Hull, Immingham and Frodingham men only worked in from the south and did not go north of York. . I think the same happened with Durham Coast MGRs for Yorkshire Power stations. I suspect it was a real boundary point between Yorkshire and the North east for a very long time

Thanks.

My question then is, of they changed crews, but did they change locomotives?

[AndyRush]

51E B1's were regular visitors to Whitemoor in the mid 1950's although they didn't have a diagrammed job there.

[Tom F]

51E B1's were regular visitors to Whitemoor in the mid 1950's although they didn't have a diagrammed job there.

Hello Andy
I think on that principle a Teesside freight could have easily kept the same loco through to Doncaster!

The photo in question shows Thornaby Sheds 61024 working through York Station.

[Boris]

Don't put to much credence on loco's with shed codes in other areas, especially freight as they could turn up anywhere.
I must have fired loco's from dozens of different depots on relief turns from Darnall station.

If a goods loco was on shed and the foreman needed one, it didn't matter where it came from, he didn't even probably look to see where it was shedded he would just put it on a job whether it was going nearer home or not.

[AndyRush]

Don't put to much credence on loco's with shed codes in other areas, especially freight as they could turn up anywhere.
I must have fired loco's from dozens of different depots on relief turns from Darnall station.

If a goods loco was on shed and the foreman needed one, it didn't matter where it came from, he didn't even probably look to see where it was shedded he would just put it on a job whether it was going nearer home or not.

This was not the experience of steam depot running foremen that I spoke to in my early years on the railway, admittedly at Rotherham and in East Anglia.

The first thing to realise is what the 'system' was supposed to be, and then to understand what that might mean when looking at where goods engines got to. Basically, any foreman would know which were his 'own' locos and which were 'foreigners'. His own locos were the ones he would book out on his own depot diagrammed jobs and the foreigners would be used, in the first instance, on the return legs of their inward workings. Thus, in the instances I quoted of 51E B1's turning up at March, if they came in on a 50A B1 diagrams, that would be what they returned on, subject to any overriding instructions from the District/Regional engine controller.

So, why would you see goods engines 'all over the place'? It was common practice for engines to be used on 'fill in' out and home turns - in the case of our 51E B1 arriving at March off a special at 3 am and being allocated (by the engine controller, because it was a an 'unbalanced' engine ) to an evening 50A diagram job from Whitemoor. If, after coaling and watering, it was OK for traffic, the March foreman might decide to use it on an out and back 31B job to Cambridge, for example and he would do this without 'asking' if he could do it as the controllers would not be concerned so long as it was available for the allocated job in the evening.

Another reason for goods locos ending up in unlikely places was the normal 'cut and thrust' of everyday goods train working. Take the case of our 51E B1, which has set out from Newport yard on a booked service to Dringhouses except that the yard has given the train a full load of 'Whitemoors'. York District Control Office would then try to set in motion a plan involving a spare York crew (or unbalanced Doncaster men) to relieve it and forward it as a special to keep a full train of Whitemoor traffic out of Dringhouses. The Stockton crew would be directed to 50A to pick up a fresh engine for their back working.

And then their were out-and-out specials which could take goods engines pretty much anywhere on occasions. March K1's on sugar beet specials were particular wanderers, often working through to such places as Allscot and ending up on Crewe South. Their homeward journey could be by any number of routes.

Variations of the above were being played out all over the railway network every day and it is no wonder that it sometimes appeared to be completely chaotic. But it wasn't and the whole thing couldn't have functioned if it had been.

Andy

[1H was 2E]

I remember on the regular Sunday Northampton shed bash about 1963 encountering an NER B1, from memory a Thornaby one. 612something possibly. Always puzzled how it worked there, but, from thgerom the comments, a likely way it got here was via March - March B1s were the ER contribution to the Peterbro' - Northampton service in the winter, when the Brush 2s didn't work. Not quite as exotic as the V2 which turned up, and was shown on the board as working the Monday 0805 Northampton Euston. And yes it did it - wished I'd played truant from NGSchool to travel.....

[1H was 2E]

Further on the B1 on Northampton shed. It was 61257 (51L) in Jan '63. Where have those 50 years gone????