The LNER Encyclopedia

Morning all
BBC Four screened John Betjeman's Metroland last night and soon after the start, there was a Great Central Atlantic in Great Central livery shown.
Earlswood Nob

Available on iplayer right now
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... Metroland/

As a heads-up for everyone outside of iPlayer territory, I just watched it on You Tube. Very absorbing.

If you keep pausing as you play the Atlantic clip through there are some interesting details. I think the Atlantic may be one of the compounds as it looks rather like there are nameplates around the tops of the splashers. Most of the coaches in the train, but not all, appear to be in the brown and cream (or brown and French grey) livery, the rest possibly in teak, whicch must set the period of the film quite firmly - not long after 1908??

Good morning all
I didn't spot the nameplate when I first viewed the program. I have just played it through and as well as the nameplate there is also the reversing rod extension forward of the leading splasher. This was special to the C5's.
Earlswood Nob

It is easy to get carried away with all the actual and proposed new-build projects in the melting pot. But with this ongoing frenzy of new-builds of disappeared locomotive types it is a mystery to me why the recreation of the widely admired Robinson Atlantic has not come along. The present-day Great Central Railway is a well established force in railway preservation, and then there is Great Central north in Nottingham to back up the enterprise . . . and to complete the scenario, recreate too a rake of three or four GCR coaches in the exquisite 'brown with French grey upper panels'. Plus there is the promise of a fine continuous stretch of mainline track over original GCR track-bed, to show off the result.
Yes, people have axes to grind, but I'm sure if a great many people were asked to choose between supporting the building of (for instance) a BR 'Clan', or a Robinson 'Atlantic', they would look askance at you so obvious is the answer.
But yes, let's not get carried away. Phew!

Was that a searchlight signal at 1:40?

I believe the brown and French grey was finished with, soon after 1903.

The film is ostensibly 1910.

regards
Kimball

kimballthurlow wrote:Was that a searchlight signal at 1:40?

I believe the brown and French grey was finished with, soon after 1903.

The film is ostensibly 1910.

regards
Kimball

I hope you don't mind me adding a bit about GCR coach liveries.

In 1903 the coach livery change was from French grey upper panels to cream.

The change to teak for coach livery was decided at the GC Board meeting on 6th November 1908, but it was 1910 before stock in this livery appeared in any quantity.

Source - Great Central Volume 3 by George Dow.

So a 1910 film would show most stock in brown/grey or brown/cream

David

Yes, but I like the 'brown with French grey upper panels'. I could be argued to be a mite anachronistic when coupled to an 8B 4-4-2, but no more inconsistent than have a Southern Region 4-6-0 working on the North York Moors line surely.

Hi Dave,
Thanks for your reply.

I have often wondered what was meant by French grey. I have it in the back of my mind, that it had a greenish tinge, and from b/w photo evidence it was a fairly light colour .
(viz. GC Album by George Dow page 104, 1st edition)

To add to that, there is an F Moore picture on eBay at the moment, and the coaching stock is described by one seller as brown and green.

regards
Kimball

Good morning all

When I read that GCR used French Grey paint on its rolling stock. I looked at various paints labelled French Grey and some seem to have the faintest green tinge. Some were missing the green tinge completely.

Earlswood nob

Well in relation to grey, the old 1930s-50s Hornby Dublo and Trix Twin models of grey open wagons, had a decidedly green tinge.
They would have used real knowledge of the time, and the idea that these colour themes ran from GCR and other pre-groupies thru to LNER makes sense to me.
Great idea, Earlswood nob, it often works.

Can I propose the outlandish suggestion, that historic colours may be gleaned from large gauge models of the period, et al Bing, Marklin, Carette, Bassett Lowke and companies.
I enjoy looking at auction house offerings to learn.

Yes crudshoveller, the idea of a model 8B with the aforesaid coaches is very appealing, and maybe a brown and cream (or two) as an offset.

regards
Kimball

G'day all

One can convert the Hornby Clerestory coaches to GCR lookalikes, and then painted Brown & Grey (or cream) and there is a train for a GCR Atlantic.

Earlswood nob

Except for the roof profile, the arrangement of compartments, the duckets and the bogies..........

But then, I've long come to the conclusion that most modellers would be happy to put bricks on wheels behind their super detailed locos if the bricks were vaguely the right shape.

As for liveries. The builders photos in Dow clearly show that the clerestories and the 50' corridor coaches were given the brown and cream livery when built.

Since very few builders photos in 1895-1914 were in colour, it is frankly untrue to say categorically that the colour on anything was specific.

Most Photos at Doncaster of locos were workshop grey, although it does look very much like standard GNR green. I agree however, that GNR carriages tend to be certainly in varnished teak, but that is a different statement to categorically stating that the carriages in a particular painted livery are exact. Unless the photo is marked much more than most I have seen, it is not possible to guarantee the colour is what you have stated.

Even people like Bob Essery who has studied the Midland for a long time would not state with such certainty that a particular photo shows a specific colour, all his books suggest rather than state.

I am not sure that modern photo technology can colour match black and white photos without some reference data.

Paul