The LNER Encyclopedia

Hi,


On another forum there is discussion regarding the use of Gresley Buffet vehicles (as per the Hornby model) on the Southern region. One poster says that they were painted green and used on Boat Trains.

Although I worked in Southampton docks in the mid-60s I don't recall seeing them in this colour or on Boat Trains. The only ones I remember were in blue/grey on the Portsmouth-Bristol/Cardiff workings.

Anyone able to confirm, one way or the other??

Thanks in advance
Ian

Not Buffet Cars I suspect but Cafeteria Car conversions is what they are thinking of!

Sawdust.

From memory there were two, both of which ended up in Green livery, and, as has quite accurately been reported, were refurbished Gresley Buffet cars. They do not however look much like the Hornby model!

I can dig out their numbers if required.

The cafeteria cars were not refurbished buffet cars - they were rebuilds of other vehicles. There were a few on the SR and these carried green livery in their later years.

However, at least one Gresley buffet car did run on the SR and there are photos and film of it on the South Western c1966-7. This vehicle was maroon. Not easy to see but there is one in this special:


35028_SotonC_Wloo-Bourne-special_2-7-67 by robertcwp, on Flickr

Hi Fellas

Thanks for the input.

The guy who raised the original query on the other forum is a particular pal of mine, which is the real reason I've taken this on board, plus it has aroused my curiosity!

Another poster raised the issue of these vehicles being green, which is where this became the subject of this query. Silverfox, your kind offer to dig out the numbers is appreciated since it may enable us to put the matter 'to bed'. Look forward to hearing from you.

Thanks to all for the help to date.

Ian

robertcwp wrote:The cafeteria cars were not refurbished buffet cars - they were rebuilds of other vehicles. There were a few on the SR and these carried green livery in their later years.

Yes, I know they were rebuilds. How they came to be on southern metals to be rebuilt is a tale in itself! There were certainly more than two of them and the non LNER mind could confuse them with the standard Buffet Car.

Sawdust.

The Dia 167 buffet cars were refurbished during 1958 and 1959 and four were employed on W'loo - Soton boat trains - 9117/24/7/34 - and from the timig, it is quite possible that they all carried the green livery for a time. The other vehicles were six cafeteria cars converted at Eastleigh in about 1954 from third sleepers repatriated from the middle east and were numbered 9204-14. There is evidence that these carried the green livery, especially S9211E and S9213E. Most of these last vehicles were used on excursion traffic and withdrawn C1962. There were another three cafeteria cars to the same Eastleigh design, but these were converted from Dia 11 restaurant cars and I have no record of their numbers which were between 9021 and 9030.

To complete the original query - the refurbished cars did not look exactly like the LNER Hornby buffet car.

The info we have had is that the vehicles that were converted to cafeteria cars were used to repatriate Italian POWs by train from the Dutch coast. We did get an enquiry about these trains from a continental enthusiast some years ago, they sent us a not very good scan of a photo from a book showing a rake of Gresley's being dwarfed by the locomotive hauling them.

For those not in the know, when the Dia.167's were refurbished the most obvious changes were the removal of the windows behind the bar and the kitchen window being reduced in width and height.

Sawdust.

2512silverfox wrote:The Dia 167 buffet cars were refurbished during 1958 and 1959 and four were employed on W'loo - Soton boat trains - 9117/24/7/34 - and from the timig, it is quite possible that they all carried the green livery for a time. The other vehicles were six cafeteria cars converted at Eastleigh in about 1954 from third sleepers repatriated from the middle east and were numbered 9204-14. There is evidence that these carried the green livery, especially S9211E and S9213E. Most of these last vehicles were used on excursion traffic and withdrawn C1962. There were another three cafeteria cars to the same Eastleigh design, but these were converted from Dia 11 restaurant cars and I have no record of their numbers which were between 9021 and 9030.

To complete the original query - the refurbished cars did not look exactly like the LNER Hornby buffet car.

All colour photos and footage I have seen shows the Diag 167 cars on the SR to have carried maroon. Possibly they were loaned to the SR whilst some of the SR's Mark I RB vehicles were off being converted for use in 4-Rep units. There is a colour photo somewhere (Backtrack I think) of a cafeteria car in green, withdrawn at Eardley Carriage Sidings Streatham.

Hi, Fellas

Very many thanks for the information you have kindly supplied. In the meantime, I've also been around the web and found the link (below). I don't know who it is but it appears to have details of a huge number of Southern coaches. Pages 25 & 26 includes the vehicles in question. It appears they arrived on the Southern 1966/67 and all were maroon. I'm happy to settle on that!!

Once again, thanks for the help

http://www.semgonline.com/proto/BRSCarriages1_5.pdf