Prince Palatine

[Prince Palatine]

Hey there, I'm new to the board so here goes.......

I recently brought off e-bay the Horby A3 locomotive 'Prince Palatine' which had been separtated from the Master Cutler Premier Set. As I like to know a little bit about the engines I buy I was just wandering if anyone knew anthing about this particular loco? I know off this website that it was the last A3 withdrawn but other than that I know nothing. The model is in BR Blue so it would be usefull to know when the A3's carried this livery? Personally I like it in blue but can appreciate many prefer the loco in Apple Green or BR Green based on the recent Scotsman livery debates. In fact it was interesting to see hardly anyone wanted Scotsman in blue, why is that? Any how, any help would be appreciated!

Cheers


Greg

[CVR1865]

Hi Greg

The BR blue your loco was in is an experimental livery, not all loco's got it, it was changed for BR green in the fifties. Apparantly some of the regions felt the blue didn't suit their locos (basically the western region was still under the dellusion that it was the great western railway and so all should be green, sadly the BR management listened) and the blue went. Scotsman did get Blue but like all it only lasted a short while.

The livery and the early emblem place your loco in the early fifties. It was built in November 1924 as an A1 numbered 2551, it would have carried the LNER apple green livery like all the other of its class. Just like all the Gresley A1's she was rebuilt as an A3, in 1941, and renumbered as 52 in 1946 that became 60052 when BR took over in 1947 and renumbered all the LNER locos by adding 60000.

I didn't know she was the last of the class but she was withdrawn in January 1966. If you have a look at the A1/A3 class pages on the encyclopaedia it will tell you a fountain of knowledge.

hope this helps
Simon

[x568wcn]

I voted for scotsman in blue, as I detest br green!

[Ben]

I also voted for blue, I think it's a great livery which isnt shown enough in preservation.

I dont beleive the GWR were totally against this coulour, because Swindon repainted every member of the King class in this colour, making it the only class where all locos received it.

The main reasons BR gave for not continuing the use of the Blue livery are that it faded, and that if damaged, a whole repaint was required, as patched up paintwork was much more visable than it as with other colours.

[tomba]

Hi Greg,

My post on this topic is about 2-1/2 years late but here goes; you might still be around...

Hazy memory, but I'll do my best.

Around 1947-1948-1949, when I lived 1/2 a mile from the GC&GW Joint line to the west of High Wycombe, the event of each day was the passing, within five minutes of each other, of the "Master Cutler" ex Marylebone and the GW Birkenhead express, King hauled, ex Paddington. Both left London some time after 6pm. They got to my viewing place soon after 7pm, after Dick Barton.

Prince Palatine was a daily performer on the Cutler. Perhaps too regular for a small boy who wanted to "cop" new engines! Then he was replaced for a while...

Then he reappeared, in resplendent blue! I remember it well.

Wish I could be more precise on dates...

Tom

[tomba]

Around 1947-1948-1949...

Looks like I was a bit early with my dates. On page 118 of "LNER Album, Volume one" by Brian Stephenson, SBN 7110 0155 3 - is a B&W photo of Prince Palatine departing Marylebone, blue liveried, in the summer of 1950.

Tom

[Saint Johnstoun]

I now have most of the S/d Hornby A1s and A3s and Prince Palatine is a nice model in that it represents an A3 still with right hand drive in blue.

The blue with black and white lining was not intended to be experimental, that was the darker blue with red lining used for a short time prior to this. But as has been said already the blue did not wear well so was replaced on express passenger locos with green.

What we could do with is an A3 in apple green with BRITISH RAILWAYS on the tender, and an A3 in 1930s period with either a corridor tender or a streamlined non corridor one.

Prince Palatine was converted to LHD in 9/53.

[giner]

Of the two blue liveries, which was the darker, almost purplish, hue? The one with the red lining or the one with the black and white lining. I'm sure I must have seen both liveries, although being so young at the time and the brief time that these liveries existed I can't say for sure what the colour combinations were. If anyone has any colour photos they could post that would be a bonus, too.

[Saint Johnstoun]

The experimental blue with red lining was the darker. Only a limited number of locomotives received this livery.

[book law]

Due to A3's being named after racehorses. What did that horse win? Just intrested in a bit of history on the racehorses that
they were named after

[Saint Johnstoun]

Prince Palatine.

Owner T. Pilkington, won the 1911 St. Leger.

[JustinTime]

60052 finished her days languishing in St Margarets, Edinburgh in January 1966, minus her nameplates and rods. Cut up at McLellan of Coatbridge the following June.

[tomba]

Can anyone point me at a colour photo of Prince Palatine in blue livery?

Or indeed any blue A3...

Thanks, Tom

[Boris]

Tomba might be a little early on his dates as I am sure when the Master Cutler first started it was a Darnall milage working both morning and evening, two crews, one up on the Cutler,back in Sheffield 3 ish,The second crew, same stock back up, then down with the evening Cutler.

It was always one of Darnalls new B1s in green

I remember it well as I had just passed out as a fireman and got the first trip one morning when the regular fireman knocked.

That would be 1948 I'm almost sure as I passed out 09/03/48 so it was just after that.

[book law]

i cant help on a blue 60052, but i found a pic of it in br green though. Brunswick green to be precise