A4 wartime black

[kimballthurlow]

Hi,

All reports indicate that after November 1941 and before February 1944, every A4 locomotive received the black livery.

I was wondering if there is any evidence that some early repaints continued using the wheel centres and spokes in dark red, as used on the garter blue liveried engines.

How Germanic, if that really did occur.

regards
Kimball

[2002EarlMarischal]

I refer to the RCTS Locomotives of the LNER books for detail of this nature. Part 2A is the bible on LNER Pacifics. There is no mention of a black engine/red wheel permutation but it certainly would have looked interesting, and as you say, very Germanic!

[kimballthurlow]

Thank you EarlMarischal, I am considering doing a repaint on a model.

I am not averse to doing "fantasy" colours.

regards
Kimball

[2002EarlMarischal]

Have you seen this site?

http://www.fictitiousliveries.co.uk/pho ... 163_IC.jpg

Let your imagination run riot!!

[52D]

Im interested in what you turn up on this one. You could of course have an A4 as an Atlantic with no valve gear being towed back to Doncaster after the air raid on York as a diorama. These type of scenes are favoured by military modellers.
Trying to put ideas into EMs head

[kimballthurlow]

Hi all,
Thank you for replies.

The Fictitious Liveries is a buzz, albeit he/she is a professional doing this for a living.

Regards the black, my source tells me that a few A4s were not repainted black till 1943.
The latest to be done were:
Golden Eagle in September 1943, previously blue.
Quicksilver in October 1943, previously blue.

Other paint jobs done later than this were the second time in black.

Starting September 1945, all were repainted in blue (I suspect with red wheels), by March 1948.

regards
Kimball

[2002EarlMarischal]

Im interested in what you turn up on this one. You could of course have an A4 as an Atlantic with no valve gear being towed back to Doncaster after the air raid on York as a diorama. These type of scenes are favoured by military modellers.
Trying to put ideas into EMs head

Blimey! I haven't tried weathering yet and you already want me to do bomb damage!

[manna]

G'Day Gents

It seems a strange timeline, that the war was in it's fourth year before the last A4's were painted black ! hard to imagine a A4 (or green A3') standing at the 'Cross' with air raid sirens, barrage balloons, and Spitfires, whizzing around, and the railways were still in pre war colors, doesn't quite have the newsreels dark grittiness about it

manna

[Sir Nigel Gresley]

I doubt that black was intended as camouflage. It was surely an economy measure, black paint being less resource-demanding to manufacture, and doing away with the need for cleaners.

[60800]

Have you seen this site?

http://www.fictitiousliveries.co.uk/pho ... 163_IC.jpg

Let your imagination run riot!!

This one is quite appealing, an HST in apple green! http://www.fictitiousliveries.co.uk/pho ... 2_lner.jpg

[strang steel]

G'Day Gents

It seems a strange timeline, that the war was in it's fourth year before the last A4's were painted black ! hard to imagine a A4 (or green A3') standing at the 'Cross' with air raid sirens, barrage balloons, and Spitfires, whizzing around, and the railways were still in pre war colors, doesn't quite have the newsreels dark grittiness about it

manna

Part 2A of the Green Book series states:-

"For more than two years after the war started in September 1939, Doncaster continued to apply the full Garter blue livery to A4 engines as they visited that works for major repairs. But from mid-November 1941, this standard could no longer be maintained and from then on these engines were simply painted black overall and without any lining........The last engine in pre-war Garter blue was 2510 which went into works in August 1943."

[manna]

G'Day Gents

As said earlier, the last A4 was repainted Blue in 1948 !! anyone got a name or number.

Thank you, manna

[strang steel]

I am not sure what you mean by 'repainted blue', Manna.

Are you referring to the last black liveried A4 loco to go blue, or the last loco to be painted in any shade of blue?

If the former, then it seems to be Mallard in March 1948, but the latter is a much more complex question owing to the different shades of blue experimented with after nationalisation.

[manna]

G'Day Gents

Yes, sorry, the last black A4, to be repainted Garter Blue ( I assume ) in March 1948, and again I assume, with 'British Railways' in full on the tender.

manna

[52D]

Hoole in his history of NER locomotives gives figures to the amount saved by painting goods locos into either plain black or black lined with red. I will dig out the figures when i return home. It will be interesting to compare a percentage of costs saved when comparing the costs involved with painting the A4s.