Dairycoates MPD

[Steve05]

Hi All,

I picked up an old magazine from the club and it had several photographs of the Dairycoates MPD at Hull. Wow is that a shed or what? It’s just massive! Can anyone tell me more about how it came to be and perhaps why it was built so large? How does it compare with anything the LMS had? My mate has a book on LMS sheds and I had a quick flick through it but could not see anything as large as this monster shed. What was the sheds purpose and what locos did it house? I imagine it’s mostly for heavy industry.

Steve

[Solario]

As you say, Dairycoates was a massive shed, the largest, I believe, on the old NER but I don't think it was as big as Stratford.

It was primarily a goods shed up until Botanic Gardens closed to steam in the late 50s at which point it received the BG stock.

Most people do not realise how big a port Hull was, arguably the third largest, after London & Liverpool. It was also, arguably, the UKs largest fishing port (Grimsby folk may dispute that fact). It was also a large manufacturing centre. As a result there were many marshaling and goods yards dealing with exports, especially coal, and imports, timber, linseed and various foodstuffs.

Dairycoates provided all the necessary motive power for these operations from tiny 0-4-0 dock shunters through to the largest goods locos and locos for fast fish trains. The different classes would be too numerous to mention but over the years a selection would include all the NER 0-8-0 classes, K3 2-6-0s, WD 2-8-0s (lots of these in the 1950s), various 0-6-0s ( J21/4/5/7, 39), shunters would include the NER J71/2/3/7 & the large A7s & T1s for trip working and hump shunting.
In the BR years, there were a number of Ivatt 4MT 2-6-0s. BG locos moving in included B1s, D49s & V1/V3 tanks.

Another thing of note was the distinctive "cracker", this was one of the very first coaling plants in the country opening in 1916. On the other hand, Hull was often a bit of a Cinderella regarding locos, often receiving old mainline engines well past their prime.

If you come across the books about Hull Railways by Willie Yeadon (of register fame), the second one covers Dairycoates very well - "More Illustrated History of the Railways of Hull". This includes details of loco allocations.

[kudu]

We have to be careful what we mean by "size". Do we mean physical size or number of locos allocated?

Dairycoates was the largest NER shed on both criteria with 146 locos at the Grouping (Yeadon) and six turntables. At Nationalisation it was down to 125.

In physical size it must have been one of the largest in Britain, but its allocation was dwarfed by many other sheds, above all Stratford, of course. But physically Stratford was surprisingly small, especially in covered area, though its allocation was by far the largest in the country. This is explained by the presence of many sub-sheds and by the small size of many of its locos. (It had a huge number of tanks.)

On the LMS the largest covered area must have been Crewe North, which at one time had 48 roads!

At Nationalisation Dairycoates ranked only 33rd equal, or 14th amongst ex-LNER sheds in terms of allocation.

The discrepancies between physical size and allocation can be considerable - Borough Gardens had 4 turntables for 61 engines in 1923, a figure which fell to 50 by 1948. Contrast St Margarets with 213.

Kudu

[Steve05]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for that great information.

British Railways Illustrated claimed it could house 116 loco’s under cover with an allocation of about 150 with 3 sixty foot and 3 fifty foot turntables within sheds. Sunken ash wagon roads and a state of the art wheel drop being some of the features. It was reported to have an “advanced” mechanical coaling plant and some very modern amenities for the times.
I was also interested because the MPD was spread over a very large allocation of land rather than squashed up into a corner or block in which spare space was at a premium (my perception). The shed/s also seemingly able to house much more locomotive stock than I have seen in my somewhat limited research of the LNER sheds. Upon a very quick and superficial “flick” through LMS shed plans, it’s still seemed large in comparison to many of theirs. I suppose I was impressed with the large area under roof and indeed the very large physical area the MPD took up. It’s obvious it could take far more than was ever allocated to it by the LNER or BR.

My friend also advised that a lot of money was spent on it to affect repairs to roof and buildings about mid 1950’s.

It’s all very interesting and I enjoy learning more from your comments.

Steve

[Solario]

Sunken ash wagon roads and a state of the art wheel drop being some of the features.

Happily, the wheel drop still exists, now at Grosmont under a not very authentic housing.

[bricam5]

When I was a passed cleaner at Botanic Gardens, I was often sent to Alex Dock or Dairycoates usually at night. Apart from one shunting trip at Dairycoates, all my firing trips consisted of stabling engines. Dozens of them lined up on the pits mainly " Austerities".
I never was able to find my way round that shed it was so huge. Botanic with two inside and one outside turntables was big enough for me. The main problem was that I never saw the place in daylight except on the trod to Hessle Road when I had finished my shift and I was far too knackered to notice anything!

[Malcolm]

For some really fabulous photos of Dairycoates in 1913 go to Page 33 of:

A Portrait of the North Eastern Railway
David & Claire Williamson and Michael Grocock
Published by NERA
ISBN 978 1 873513 58 3

A fantastic book still available.

Malcolm

[Wildebeeste]

Please find attached Excel spreadsheet showing allocations at Dairycoates since 1922 by year and class. 181 locos in residence at some time in 1929.

Wildebeeste

Dairycoates 1922+.xls

(35.5 KiB) Downloaded 257 times

[Solario]

Thanks Wildebeeste, your spreadsheet is very interesting.

19 ex NER Atlantics in 1943, what a come down, I expect they were used on fish trains and other fast freights.

One point, I thought that some of the dreaded Clayton diesels (class 15s?) were allocated during the mid 1960s, I certainly used to see them through Cottingham on pick up goods.

[Wildebeeste]

Solario

I don't recall ever seeing a Clayton (Class 17) in action. I believe they operated in Teesside, Tyneside and Scotland. As far as I know they were never based in Hull. See http://www.railblue.com/pages/In%20Dept ... aytons.htm

Class 14 Teddy Bears were working in Hull (usually in pairs) about the time you mention. They weren't successful either.

Wildebeeste

[4493]

Thanks for the interesting spreadsheet Wildebeeste, do you have them for Botanic Gardens and Springhead sheds? What does the @ denote please?

[StevieG]

Thanks Wildebeeste, your spreadsheet is very interesting.

19 ex NER Atlantics in 1943, what a come down, I expect they were used on fish trains and other fast freights.

One point, I thought that some of the dreaded Clayton diesels (class 15s?) were allocated during the mid 1960s, I certainly used to see them through Cottingham on pick up goods.

IIRC, the TOPS 15 Class No. was allocated (though I think, never carried) by the BTH Bo-Bos numbered in the D82xx series, which had their single cabs set slightly in from one end, and here, 'darn sarf', were I think often known as 'Paxmans' after their engine maker. Several were used on local-ish, normally goods, journeys in the KX / Finsb.Pk./ Stratford / WGC / Luton / Dunstable area. A few were retained longer-term, but re-numbered into departmental stock and used as unpowered passenger stock heating units in depots.

[50C]

20 Type 14's arrived in Hull in 1966 from Cardiff Canton,Bristol Bath Road and Landore(Swansea).In 1967 13 more arrived from storage at Cardiff,Landore and Worcester.All 33 were withdrawn in 1968.I was attending Hull Tech during this period and remember seeing a batch of them in storage at the Botanic Gardens diesel depot. I travelled in and out of Hull by train every week day over these three years and dont recall seeing any being used in anger!

50c

[Solario]

Sorry I mistook the Clayton classification, nevertheless, I am sure that for a while they operated pick up goods on the Hull Beverley line sometime in the mid 60s. I have consulted Willie Yeadon's book "More Illustrated History of the Railways of Hull" which gives Dairycoates allocations, and no, the Claytons do not feature. I wonder if one or two were on loan for a short period.
Like 50C, I also attended Hull Tech during this time and vaguely remember the Class 14s at Botanic, I also remember one of the Blue Pullman sets there for a few weeks. There are some pictures of the Class 14s at work in Willie Yeadons book, indeed on the front cover.

[Wildebeeste]

4493

@ means imported and exported in the same year.

Hope to post Botanic Gardens and Springhead before long. Need to tidy them up.