Sir Nigel Gresley - by chance a trendsetter?

[Eightpot]

The V2s with 6' - 2" driving wheels were intended for fast freight work. Yet they were found to be very effective substitutes for the Pacifics. Can he be said to have quite unintentially started the 6' - 2" driving wheel diameter trend which resulted later in the Bullied Pacifics, the LNER A2s and the BR Standard Pacifics?

[Solario]

Of course the P2s were the first of Gresley's express designs to have 6' 2" driving wheels and the Thompson rebuilds plus his V2 "conversions" lead to the A2s having the same size. I am sure that Bulleid, and his close association with the P2s, recognised the fact that 6" 2" was fine for fast running and took the idea to the SR. I have read the fact somewhere but not sure where.

In his book about the BR Standards, ES Cox remarks that the driving wheel size for the Pacifics was fairly arbitary and 6' 0" was also considered but the larger size preferred. I would think that precedent that had been set by both the LNER & SR would have been taken into account. I wonder if the LNER wheel patterns where used?

[Eightpot]

Yes, but I think it should be remembered that the P2s were designed for a specific job or route (Edinburgh to Aberdeen), whereas the V2s were intended for use on main lines of RA9 capacity all over the LNER system. This is why I didn't refer to the P2s despite them also having 6' - 2" driving wheels.

[sirbrian]

Regarding the posting by Solario, the Bulleid Pacifics on the Southern Railway ran on "Boxpok" wheels, not conventional spoked wheels. Therefore, the LNER wheel patterns could not have been used. As for the BR Standard Pacifics, I think that the Crewe foundry would have had its own patterns for the wheels for these locomotives. (I hope that I spelled "Boxpok" correctly.)

Sir Brian

[Solario]

the Bulleid Pacifics on the Southern Railway ran on "Boxpok" wheels, not conventional spoked wheels

Sorry, I meant were the LNER wheel patterns used for the Standards not the Bullied Pacifics, which, just to be pedantic, had Bulleid-Firth-Brown wheel centres rather than Boxpok.

Did the LMS have 6' 2" drivers on any of its locos? Can't think of any off hand.

[Eightpot]

I doubt it as LNER wheels had cast-in balance weights, the BR Standards had separate steel plates rivetted on with lead filling.

[Bill Bedford]

Sorry, I meant were the LNER wheel patterns used for the Standards not the Bullied Pacifics, which, just to be pedantic, had Bulleid-Firth-Brown wheel centres rather than Boxpok.

I'll see your pedantry an raise you one..........
The patent for these wheels describes them as Beaumont-Firth-Brown wheels. Beaumont being the works manager at Firth-Brown who actually developed them.

[Blink Bonny]

Hmm.

The V2s were certainly far better runners than could be expected because their internal streamlining proved to improve the steam circuit no end. Coupled with Gresley's preference for high superheat, a winning combination.

As to other engines with 6' 2" wheels, I have found one experimental "LN" 4-6-0 30589 (sorry but my 1958 Combine doesn't list Southern "Namers") which had 6' 3" wheels but that's about it, other than the Bullieds and Standards. The "normal" driver size for mixed traffic locos seems to have been 2 inches or so either side of 5' 11" with 6' being the preferred size,presumably following the success of Urie's S15s.

One suspects that the same thing happened with the V2s as happened later on with ths 9Fs. after all, who would have thought that a 5' wheeled engine would be good for 90mph?

[Solario]

The patent for these wheels describes them as Beaumont-Firth-Brown wheels. Beaumont being the works manager at Firth-Brown who actually developed them.

I stand corrected. You learn something every day. I have to say that I have seen the B-F-B wheels described as I did in more than one publication. I expect it was an easy mistake to make, probably just assuming the leading B stood for Bulleid. As an old boss once told me, never ASSUME anything because it makes an ASS of U and ME.

[JASd17]

Today is the 70th anniversary of Sir Nigel's death.

John

[coachmann]

BR wheels followed LMS Stanier tradition in having bevel-rims.

[brsince78]

Sorry, I meant were the LNER wheel patterns used for the Standards not the Bullied Pacifics, which, just to be pedantic, had Bulleid-Firth-Brown wheel centres rather than Boxpok.

I'll see your pedantry an raise you one..........
The patent for these wheels describes them as Beaumont-Firth-Brown wheels. Beaumont being the works manager at Firth-Brown who actually developed them.

Thanks Bill. That has taught me something new. I have only ever seen them referred to in print as Bulleid-Firth-Brown.

[brsince78]

The patent for these wheels describes them as Beaumont-Firth-Brown wheels. Beaumont being the works manager at Firth-Brown who actually developed them.

I stand corrected. You learn something every day. I have to say that I have seen the B-F-B wheels described as I did in more than one publication. I expect it was an easy mistake to make, probably just assuming the leading B stood for Bulleid. As an old boss once told me, never ASSUME anything because it makes an ASS of U and ME.

An old boss of mine had the following written on the white board in his office:-

NAF OFF

When asked why, he explained:- Never Assume Find Out Facts First

[Blink Bonny]

NAF OFF?

I'll remember that...