The LNER Encyclopedia

Watching a Tv doco on King George VI the other day and noted that the loco which brought his coffin south from Sandringham after he died there in 1952 was the B2 61617 'Ford Castle'. Yet the pictures then showed the train drawing into Liverpool Street hauled by 70000 'Britannia'. Was there an engine change and if so where? Or did the doco makers use a little journalistic licence?

I may be wrong, but I seem to remember that the train changed direction and therefore loco at Ely.

Surely, the train would also have had to reverse at Kings Lynn, if it originated on the Hunstanton branch?

The train ran into Kings Cross station, presumably via Cambridge and Hitchin. I recall a local photographer photting it at Hatfield.

The funeral train arrived into Kings X behind Britannia. They must have been pretty rare at that time on the GN

I thought the monarch (does that still apply once deceased?) always went to King's Cross when possible to avoid the formalities of entering the City of London when using Liverpool Street.

Yes, even today the Queen uses Kings Cross as opposed to Liverpool Street.

The monarch is still the monarch until the new one is crowned. Although usually, i beleive is generally the custom, that those attending the dieing King or Queen would proclaim the king is dead and long live the king, at the time of his passing.

QE2 certainly used Liverpool Street quite a bit in the 60s when returning from Sandringham. I worked in the City then and used to get the buzz from friends at LS as to arrival details. She usually came on the front of a service train in twelve wheeler 395 or 396 into the old platform with the cab road.

This YouTube video shows the sequence of events, from the coffin leaving Sandringham to arriving at what looks to me like Kings Cross.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXjEcyWC_Z4

I think the idea of 61617 from Wolferton to Kings Lynn, and 70000 from there to London seems very logical.

strang steel wrote:This YouTube video shows the sequence of events, from the coffin leaving Sandringham to arriving at what looks to me like Kings Cross.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXjEcyWC_Z4

I think the idea of 61617 from Wolferton to Kings Lynn, and 70000 from there to London seems very logical.

Thanks John - my error in the initial post ref Liverpool Street.

I have finally got around to looking this up.

The March 1952 RO confirms 61617 to Kings Lynn and 70000 to Kings Cross. The writers suggest that this was the first ever appearance of a pacific locomotive at Kings Lynn.

Langley water troughs were out of use at that time due to pw works, and the royal 61671 was in works, so they surmise that the slightly larger water capacity of the Britannia was the reason for that class being used.

What they dont mention is whether there was a speed limit imposed on royal funeral trains, or maybe they were just subject to more careful driving. I dont have any special traffic notices for this sort of working I'm afraid.

strang steel wrote:
What they dont mention is whether there was a speed limit imposed on royal funeral trains, or maybe they were just subject to more careful driving. I dont have any special traffic notices for this sort of working I'm afraid.

Royal Train notices used to be individually numbered, had to be signed for, were supposed to be collected after the event, and then returned to the issuing HQ office, hence their comparative rarity. Very occasionally staff involved (for instance a driver or guard who might be retiring soon) were allowed to keep theirs as a memento. There was no speed limit as such, it was, as you say, more the case that it was expected the train would adhere strictly to the timings shown in the notice, which probably wouldn't be all that tight. If you can get hold of Brockbank's book 'Triumph and beyond - the ECML 1939-1959' it gives some details of specific journeys of the Royal Train during that period. What I do know about this funeral train is that Signalman George Wakefield of Hitchin got into a row because of his refusal to wear a tie for the occasion, or so he told me.

I was lucky enough as a young man to once ride in Saloons 395 and 396 with a CM&EE Inspector, a Mr Bird from Doncaster, who casually mentioned that he had been on the test train with Mallard on Sunday, July 3rd, 1938!

Thanks for all that information, and the book recommendation. I have ordered a used copy from an online second hand bookshop, so will await its arrival with interest.

EDIT:
I have just received the copy of the book and just browsing through it; there are some wonderful photos contained therein, not least the one of 60700 on its side at Westwood Junction after its leading bogie fracture.
Also the bomb damage at Kings Cross.

I am so delighted to have found this site/thread. I am not a "train person" - other than I loved steam as a young girl!

The movieclip has made me cry - not because of the monarch, but because I believe my grandad was the driver. My mum always told me that the Ford Castle had done the Sandringham trip with Grandad in charge. Wherever I looked previously had only told me the number of the train going into Kings Cross, so I assumed that she was mistaken.

Is the Ford Castle at York now?

If anyone can pount me at any pictures of Ford Castle I would be very grateful. I do have one I think that I will attempt to post later.

CVR1865 wrote:Yes, even today the Queen uses Kings Cross as opposed to Liverpool Street.

The monarch is still the monarch until the new one is crowned. Although usually, i beleive is generally the custom, that those attending the dieing King or Queen would proclaim the king is dead and long live the king, at the time of his passing.

Wrong way around surely? 'Le roi et mort - vive le roi' is to ensure continuity. Our present Queen became so in 1952 whilst in Africa, on the death of her father, although her Coronation was not until 1953. That is why 2012 is the Diamond Jubilee celebration, not 2013.