Agecroft 26B, B1 Alocations.

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Torquay
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Agecroft 26B, B1 Alocations.

Post by Torquay »

Hi all,in the past there as been various dates and engine numbers in respect of B1s at Agecroft,i kept a log of these Locos in an old wash out book;new at the time. The B1s arrived within the first week of April 1958,they were as follows: 61002, 61008, 61201, 61269, 61298, and 61369,i believe they came from the Leicester area. They replaced Black 5s Nos 44781, 44782, 44823, 45337, 45338, and 45450, that left us with 45223, and 45234,a few months later we aquired, 45261,and a scotch engine, 45116 with its large cabside numbers. We assumed our 5s went to Leicester,why this took place no one knows, even the shedmaster did not know. As for the B1s they were not liked at all,we soon got used to the letter box, the only problem was we had large coal and it was a double job having to brake the coal into smaller pieces with the pick,on say a Bradford job,the fireman had enough by Rochdale, give us a Black 5 anytime. I transfered to Patricroft in March 1959 and the B1s were still at 26B.Going to Patricroft was the best thing i ever did as far as my Railway career was concerned; the LNWR,was a proper railway,as i found out. Torquay. pp
osprey
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Re: Agecroft 26B, B1 Alocations.

Post by osprey »

Am I right in thinking the B1,s were rough riding? Only what I've heard, but would be nice to hear it first hand.
50C
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Re: Agecroft 26B, B1 Alocations.

Post by 50C »

Records show-

61008 from leicester Sep 59 to Woodford Halse May 62

61201 " Aug 59 withdrawn Jan 62

61269 " Oct 59 to Woodford Halse May 62

61298 " Oct 59 withdrawn Jun 62

61369 " Oct 59 t0 Woodford Halse May 62

Hope this helps

50c
Torquay
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Re: Agecroft 26B, B1 Alocations.

Post by Torquay »

osprey wrote:Am I right in thinking the B1,s were rough riding? Only what I've heard, but would be nice to hear it first hand.
Hi Osprey,in comparison to a Black 5 the B1s were rough riding,then again their was worse.Agecroft drivers in the main worked to the book;shallow fire,light and often. Filling the box up was unheard of,plus they hardly put the regulator into second valve, they ran on a breath of steam all the time and at 15 percent or less cut off so they were not burning the coal,hence no beat/draught on the fire,which made the firemans job harder..When i went to Patricroft i arrived at 9.00am as instructed so i had missed my duty 6.40 Leeds back with a Newcastle,Liverpool Lime St,my driver was Frank Hulme ex Agecroft great chap,he said to me this is a proper railway,fill the box up,i did not know what he meant as i only new the Agecroft way,i soon learnt, and amazingly it made my job a lot easier,we had a 5x collingwood that morning. Returning express from Leeds a Newton Heath man hooked onto us with a scot,one could say super power. By the way i found out that day,Diggle tunnel had water troughs inside,Frank said dont put your head out just listen for a clanking noise,then dip, the same at the end of the troughs.Really great day. Torquay.
Torquay
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Re: Agecroft 26B, B1 Alocations.

Post by Torquay »

50C wrote:Records show-
Hi 50C I have my old washout book here beside me,61008 Kudu was the first named engine i had ever fired,something one never forgets,and adorned with a 26B plate on the s/box so it was quite a thrill,i soon found out that the posh bucket seats were the only good thing about them,thats when one got the chance,we could not fire them and the drivers could not drive them,after all we were L&Y men.As for the other 4 B1s you list,they were always at 26B,having said that i found another page of my washout book i have numbers, in ,61016, 61017, 61021, and 61030 but no details. Have you ever found a shedbook with B1s recorded as 26B engines,as the shedbooks i have for that era do not show B1s at Agecroft at all. I wonder if i have got mixed up with the above engine numbers,can you let me know,i do know that Impala and Kudu were at our shed,i mean how often did we get named engines at 26B in the 50s very rare,when we got the odd 5x or Black 5 named engines we were all over them. Thanks Torquay.
61008 from leicester Sep 59 to Woodford Halse May 62

61201 " Aug 59 withdrawn Jan 62

61269 " Oct 59 to Woodford Halse May 62

61298 " Oct 59 withdrawn Jun 62

61369 " Oct 59 t0 Woodford Halse May 62

Hope this helps

50c
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Tony
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Re: Agecroft 26B, B1 Alocations.

Post by Tony »

A caption from Newman's G.C. book reads:

'Thompson B1 № 61269, a one time Leicester engine, with the WSO Woodford-Leicester near Wolfhampcote on Saturday 14 April 1962. It was recently repatriated to the GC from Agecroft shed. Other Leicester B1s transferred to Agecroft were №s 61008, 61201, 61298 and 61369. In addition to № 61269, №s 61008 Kudu and 61369 have also been returned to the GC at this time.'

61201 had earlier been a Colwick engine. Regarding 61002 - that was a long-time York engine that eventually ended up at Hull. It was seen from time to time working the GC extension but was never a GC engine that I knew of.

Hope this is a useful addition to all the other responses.
50C
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Re: Agecroft 26B, B1 Alocations.

Post by 50C »

As Tony mentioned,61002 was a long term York engine. It moved down from Scotland in Sep 51 and remained at York until Jun 65 when it went to Hull Dairycoates where it was withdrawn in Jun 67.Being A Selby lad I often saw it on York-Doncaster locals.

From 1947 61016/17/21/30 spent there time at North Eastern sheds including Wakefield,Low Moor and Sowerby Bridge sheds which by the mid 50's had been transfered from the LMS to the NE area


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Pyewipe Junction
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Re: Agecroft 26B, B1 Alocations.

Post by Pyewipe Junction »

Torquay wrote:Hi all,in the past there as been various dates and engine numbers in respect of B1s at Agecroft,i kept a log of these Locos in an old wash out book;new at the time. The B1s arrived within the first week of April 1958,they were as follows: 61002, 61008, 61201, 61269, 61298, and 61369,i believe they came from the Leicester area. They replaced Black 5s Nos 44781, 44782, 44823, 45337, 45338, and 45450, that left us with 45223, and 45234,a few months later we aquired, 45261,and a scotch engine, 45116 with its large cabside numbers. We assumed our 5s went to Leicester,why this took place no one knows, even the shedmaster did not know. As for the B1s they were not liked at all,we soon got used to the letter box, the only problem was we had large coal and it was a double job having to brake the coal into smaller pieces with the pick,on say a Bradford job,the fireman had enough by Rochdale, give us a Black 5 anytime. I transfered to Patricroft in March 1959 and the B1s were still at 26B.Going to Patricroft was the best thing i ever did as far as my Railway career was concerned; the LNWR,was a proper railway,as i found out. Torquay. pp
On some other forums this would be regarded as a possible 'troll' post, but I'll let that through 'go through to the keeper'. Whatever, the reasons for the transfer of B1s to Agecroft was an LMR decision, so nothing to do with the ER or NER. Personally, I don't see why ex-LNER designs (with the possible exception of the L1s) couldn't have been left on the GC until closure, as the enginemen were familiar with them. AFAICT, by 1960 15E had no LMS 5s left and and had switched to BR Standard 5s, with the exception of a couple of B1s. It also had two V2s It was at this time that Annesley appears to have taken over as the chief passenger shed north of London, with allocations of LMS 5s, later Scots and of course Brits for a short while. Interestingly, going somewhat against the grain, the 1960 Locoshed Book shows Woodford Halse with allocations of B1s and large numbers of K3s!

As far as coal is concerned, it doesn't appear to have occurred to Torquay that the B1s were designed with LNER coal supply in mind. Not their fault that they were transferred to foreign territory!

BTW, I've always wondered what Agecrofts's role was, being so close to the giant Newton Heath.
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Tony
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Re: Agecroft 26B, B1 Alocations.

Post by Tony »

Pyewipe, as an avid observer of the day, I too can confirm there was plenty LNE 'stuff' allocated IN to Woodford Halse AFTER the LMR takeover. The types involved were B1s, L1s, K3s and J39s (plus a solitary J10 whose only useful work at Woodford that I knew of was to serve in the short term as stationary boiler - later that was the job of the last J39 withdrawn from service - 64747).
V2 60828 was also oddly reallocated to Leicester Central away from the ER (it had previously been a Kings Cross engine) subsequent to the LMR takeover of the GC line. This had been the loco involved in the derailment of 1955.
One observes and records, but fathoming WHY these unlikely changes occur is an entirely different matter of course.
Torquay
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Re: Agecroft 26B, B1 Alocations.

Post by Torquay »

Hi all,thanks for your imput on the Agecroft B1s,very informative,i have certainly learnt something. Also i am still trying to find out about 8 wheeled tenders on super Ds,i think one of the steam Mags published an article on the Ds 2/3 years back; still trying im afraid.. Torquay.
Torquay
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Re: Agecroft 26B, B1 Alocations.

Post by Torquay »

Pyewipe Junction wrote:
Torquay wrote:Hi all,in the past there as been various dates and engine numbers in respect of B1s at Agecroft,i kept a log of these Locos in an old wash out book;new at the time. The B1s arrived within the first week of April 1958,they were as follows: 61002, 61008, 61201, 61269, 61298, and 61369,i believe they came from the Leicester area. They replaced Black 5s Nos 44781, 44782, 44823, 45337, 45338, and 45450, that left us with 45223, and 45234,a few months later we aquired, 45261,and a scotch engine, 45116 with its large cabside numbers. We assumed our 5s went to Leicester,why this took place no one knows, even the shedmaster did not know. As for the B1s they were not liked at all,we soon got used to the letter box, the only problem was we had large coal and it was a double job having to brake the coal into smaller pieces with the pick,on say a Bradford job,the fireman had enough by Rochdale, give us a Black 5 anytime. I transfered to Patricroft in March 1959 and the B1s were still at 26B.Going to Patricroft was the best thing i ever did as far as my Railway career was concerned; the LNWR,was a proper railway,as i found out. Torquay. pp
On some other forums this would be regarded as a possible 'troll' post, but I'll let that through 'go through to the keeper'. Whatever, the reasons for the transfer of B1s to Agecroft was an LMR decision, so nothing to do with the ER or NER. Personally, I don't see why ex-LNER designs (with the possible exception of the L1s) couldn't have been left on the GC until closure, as the enginemen were familiar with them. AFAICT, by 1960 15E had no LMS 5s left and and had switched to BR Standard 5s, with the exception of a couple of B1s. It also had two V2s It was at this time that Annesley appears to have taken over as the chief passenger shed north of London, with allocations of LMS 5s, later Scots and of course Brits for a short while. Interestingly, going somewhat against the grain, the 1960 Locoshed Book shows Woodford Halse with allocations of B1s and large numbers of K3s!

As far as coal is concerned, it doesn't appear to have occurred to Torquay that the B1s were designed with LNER coal supply in mind. Not their fault that they were transferred to foreign territory!

BTW, I've always wondered what Agecrofts's role was, being so close to the giant Newton Heath.
Hi Pyewipe Junction,sorry so long in getting back to you,re Agecrofts role to 26A. I would imagine that due to the amount of coal mines around the area a Loco shed and sidings were required to accommodate the large volume of traffic,this may have cut down on engine movements through Victoria Station. Salford Docks also played a big part,the cattle dock at cross lane,Salford goods yard,Swinton,Moreside,and Walkden sidings had to be sorted on a daily basis, plus a number of other sidings scattered around. From the passenger point of view,we ran out of Victoria as you know and North out of Salford Station,plus Clifton Junction to Liverpool with the workforce from the Chloride and Pilkington companys,amongst others. By the way,in respect of BIs and the coal they used;it was exactly the same as the LMS,the difference being,LNER coal was delivered in a much smaller size more often than not i believe,so much easier for their letter box type firedoor. Also as a Locoman we do know the other regions locomotives,and i am very much aware of Locomotives built on other regions,as to how,why,coal type Etc,we did not just clean,fire,and drive them,we studied locos,after all Locomen are an enthusiastic bunch,it starts at a very young age. Keep well. Torquay.
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