The J11s as BR Standards?

[Pyewipe Junction]

Can it really be true that BR at one time considered building medium-powered 0-6-0s based on the J11s, or is this just an 'urban myth'?

If it is true, where did the idea come from and has anyone seen outline drawings of what they would have looked like? I assume they would have had modern cabs, but would they have had tapered boilers and raised footplates?

As a GC fan I would naturally be delighted to think that this possibility was seriously considered, but wonder why the J11s would have been favoured when there were more modern designs around (eg the GW 2251 class).

[Atlantic 3279]

Without knowing your source for this rumour, I would have to be tempted to think that it might just be the end product of "Chinese Whispers", the original message having been that an improved J11 was to be an LNER standard in Thompson's scheme.

[JASd17]

The J11s were included in Thompson's standardisation plan. 31 Locomotives were rebuilt to incorporate modern long-travel valve gear, the last rebuilds took place in 1953 Nos. 64394/5. Peter Grafton in his book 'Edward Thompson of the LNER' states that an order for the conversion of 8 more locos was placed in 1955, but this was cancelled under the BR Modernisation Plan.

The initial British Railways Locomotive Standards Committee in 1950 had a 'Light Freight Tender' category for either a 2-6-0 or 0-6-0. The former was chosen based on the LMS design. Although BR built more locomotives to pre-BR designs than it did 'Standards'. The numbers I believe are 999 Standards and 1538 for the older designs.

John

[Pyewipe Junction]

I found the source of my information. It is on p216 of 'British Railway Steam Locomotives 1948 - 1968' by Hugh Longworth and reads as follows:

'It was at one time decided that these J11/3 engines should form a standard class on BR and a large number of new engines were scheduled. This plan was later abandoned.'

I have no idea how well regarded this book is as a source of information and close scrutiny will inevitably reveal occasional errors (for example, the A2s and V2s are described as 7MT and 6MT instead of 8P7F and 7P6F), nevertheless he must have got the information from somewhere.

[JASd17]

Could you please supply full details of this book? Clearly full of something if it is running to 200 plus pages.

John

[Pyewipe Junction]

Of course. Have a look here:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/British-Railway ... 864&sr=1-1

Currently available from Amazon for 20 pounds.

There is now a companion book showing allocations for the same period.

I find it veritable goldmine of information relating to renumbering, withdrawal dates, scrapping etc.

[IAK]

Ok then.
To confuse matters go to

http://www.waterstones.com/waterstonesw ... 8/8452047/

Waterstones are listing this as out in October so is this a reprint or 2nd edition with corrections?
Wibble

[65447]

The publisher for both is Ian Allan's OPC imprint. There's a link at the bottom of the Waterstones webpage that takes you to the description of the first book, published in 2005; the description for the 'Allocations' is clearly for a companion volume to it due later this year (although that will be merely a guide to which decade it eventually sees the light of day if OPC's past performance is anything to go by). It does suggest that it's not just tables and tables of data but also photos. For those of us of the LNER persuasion the allocation details for ex-LNER locomotives are already in the Yeadon Registers, so it's a hefty price to pay for the duplication.

[kudu]

1948 allocations are already available in Chris Banks "BR Locomotives 1948" (OPC 1990). Irritatingly, 68130-85 are missing.

The value of the Banks and Longworth books is that they are not confined to the LNER, where I am sure Yeadon would be the more reliable source. I have noticed a few errors with the Longworth book, such as reporting locos were built at Eastleigh before it opened!

Kudu

[Pyewipe Junction]

. For those of us of the LNER persuasion the allocation details for ex-LNER locomotives are already in the Yeadon Registers, so it's a hefty price to pay for the duplication.

Yes, mate, but some of us are actually interested in British railways as a whole (even if we have a preference for the LNER), in which case it will be an absolute bargain when it comes out.

1948 allocations are already available in Chris Banks "BR Locomotives 1948" (OPC 1990). Irritatingly, 68130-85 are missing.

Can't see the point of that comment. Longworth's book has a much broader remit.

Jeez, I'd hate to be someone in the UK trying to assemble a railway reference book, with all the pedants waiting in the wings to pounce on the slightest error. This guy deserves a lot of credit for all the time and effort he's put into this project. Let's face it, he's hardly done it for the money has he?

[kudu]

1948 allocations are already available in Chris Banks "BR Locomotives 1948" (OPC 1990). Irritatingly, 68130-85 are missing.

Can't see the point of that comment. Longworth's book has a much broader remit.

Jeez, I'd hate to be someone in the UK trying to assemble a railway reference book, with all the pedants waiting in the wings to pounce on the slightest error. This guy deserves a lot of credit for all the time and effort he's put into this project. Let's face it, he's hardly done it for the money has he?

The "point" of my message (it wasn't a comment) was simply to clarify what is already available to help people decide on their purchases.

If there is a place for pedantry, it is to alert people to errors in reference material. I certainly expect people to correct any of my factual statements here regardless of the efforts I had made. I confess to being slightly uneasy at some of the errors I have come across in Longworth, but it remains for me an invaluable source, especially as I can't commit to all those Yeadons.

Kudu