Gresley standard 61'6" carriages - battery box question

[gdb]

Through the good services of Mike Trice I have a copy of the drawing for the angle iron underframe of the standard 61'6" stock. This drawing shows two sizes for the battery boxes... the box for break vans being around 1.5" thinner (front to back) than that for other stock. One possibility is that the batteries of break vans are smaller than those of ordinary passenger stock.... another possibility is that break vans require more room between the two boxes (for handbreak linkage?)

Can anyone explain why break vans with angle iron underframes had thinner battery boxes than non-break stock?

Did this feature of the angle iron underframe (for break vans) have a precedent in break vans with truss rod underframes?

regards and thank you, Graham Beare

[2512silverfox]

The batteries on the brake vans were of a lower Ampere Hour Capacity - i.e. there was a lower drain on a stationary vehicle with few lights. Compare with a normal corridor coach with comp lights etc.

[Dave]

Graham.
The handbrake linkage happens before the battery boxes.

The number of battery cells per box also varies depending on the type of carriage but that did not alter the size of the box ( it is a minefield especially if coupled to the type and size of dynamo)

Dave

[Dave]

Ahh..proved myself wrong again...

Drwg 4214N (02/03/1923) 60'-0" turnbuckle underframe shows boxes 1'-1" wide set 1'-0" in from rear face of bulb angle.
Drwg 4739N (25/02/1924) turnbuckle underframe shows the same as above.
Drwg 12712N (8/12/1937) 60'-0" welded underframe shows A - 1'-2,3/8" wide box set 1'-1" in from rear face of bulb angle, and noted for 9, 11, 13, & 15 plate cells.
B - 1'-6" wide box set 1'-1" in as above, and noted, for 17, 19 & 21 plate cells.

I need to get out more.

Dave.

[gdb]

Ahh..proved myself wrong again...
I need to get out more.

Dave.

To look for other types and sizes?

Thank you for the details, Graham

[gdb]

Graham.
The handbrake linkage happens before the battery boxes.

Dave

Agreed... My interpretation of photos is that the handbreak linkage from the break column connects to the nearest break cross-shaft before reaching the battery boxes. I have (a part of) a drawing of an angle-iron underframe and that drawing appears to show a break rod which runs from break cross-shaft to break cross-shaft, between the battery boxes, so that applying the handbreak in the guard's area results in the break being applied to each bogie.

regards, Graham

[gdb]

Drwg 4214N (02/03/1923) 60'-0" turnbuckle underframe shows boxes 1'-1" wide set 1'-0" in from rear face of bulb angle.

Drwg 12712N (8/12/1937) 60'-0" welded underframe shows:-
A - 1'-2,3/8" wide box set 1'-1" in from rear face of bulb angle, and noted for 9, 11, 13, & 15 plate cells.
B - 1'-6" wide box set 1'-1" in as above, and noted, for 17, 19 & 21 plate cells.

Dave.

These details are slightly different to that on the angle-iron drawing which I received from Mike Trice.... unfortunately my copy has neither date nor number so hopefully Mike will come along with that information to add to the story.

The drawing which is before me shows:-
* 1'-2,3/8" wide box set 1'-1" in from rear face of bulb angle, noted for 12 cells.
* 1'-1" wide box set 1'-1" in from rear face of bulb angle, noted for 12 cells.

The drawing states that the 1'1" wide box is for use with break vans.... In the context of this discussion, does "break van" include the Break Third to D114 and the Break Composite to D175?

What does drawing 12712N suggest is the use of the box which is 1' 6" deep?

thank you and regards,graham

[MikeTrice]

These details are slightly different to that on the angle-iron drawing which I received from Mike Trice.... unfortunately my copy has neither date nor number so hopefully Mike will come along with that information to add to the story.

Drawing number does not appear on the copies I have however based on the associated drawing numbers my best guess is 15012.D dated 15/2/1934.

[Dave]

Graham

No my welded steel underframe drawing does not say which vehicles used which size of box......thats what does your head in on a simple question on LNER Gresley carriages. I have come to the conclusion that there is no such thing as a standard carriage, they are all hand made in timber, and if they weren`t so beautiful I would choose Tiger 2 tanks to model.....come to think of it.

Dave

[gdb]

These details are slightly different to that on the angle-iron drawing which I received from Mike Trice.... unfortunately my copy has neither date nor number so hopefully Mike will come along with that information to add to the story.

Drawing number does not appear on the copies I have however based on the associated drawing numbers my best guess is 15012.D dated 15/2/1934.

Thank you for the information Mike. Please feel free to let us all into the way in which you arrive at the suggestion, (and BTW - how does one get to a coach type/diagram from an underframe drawing?

regards, Graham

[gdb]

my welded steel underframe drawing does not say which vehicles used which size of box......that is what does your head in on a simple question on LNER Gresley carriages. I have come to the conclusion that there is no such thing as a standard carriage, they are all hand made in timber, and if they weren`t so beautiful I would choose Tiger 2 tanks to model.....come to think of it.

Dave

My sentiment exactly... I have had a continual headache ever since my son opened the first JLTRT Gresley box. Although in my case I shall, eventually, get back to something which is just a classy, GWR 70' stock in lake lined in gold.... at leastI understand what was used where and how to read/relate the drawings.

regards, Graham

[MikeTrice]

Thank you for the information Mike. Please feel free to let us all into the way in which you arrive at the suggestion, (and BTW - how does one get to a coach type/diagram from an underframe drawing?

regards, Graham

The drawing specifies a number of associated detailed drawings. I looked these up in the NRM drawing index (I think they were the Darlington index) and then looked at titles in the same range to find the one that matched the drawing title.

[Dave]

Graham
Can you put a copy of your drawing that shows the hand brake passing the battery box`s on here as I`ve not seen this config before.

Cheers.
Dave

[Dave]

Graham
If you go back to GWR 70` carriages you have given up.....

[gdb]

Graham
Can you put a copy of your drawing that shows the hand brake passing the battery box`s on here?
Dave

If Mike is happy with me doing so then I can. Given the file size I may extract the central portion.

If this arrangement is unusual then maybe someone can offer a suggestion as to which coaches the drawing applied (using the date provided by Mike?)

regards, Graham