A1 Peppercorn North British 60161

[Sassanid]

Hi again - is there anyone who could give me a quick history on this particular locomotive please? Did it ever venture on to the Waverley or did it spent most of it's life in Scotland?

Thanks Andrew

[Tom F]

Hi again - is there anyone who could give me a quick history on this particular locomotive please? Did it ever venture on to the Waverley or did it spent most of it's life in Scotland?

Thanks Andrew

Don't know a massive amount about 60161, she spent her whole life as a Scottish loco I believe.

I do know that she at least worked on the Waverley once. I have a recording of Peter Handfords, of 60161 on a night express recorded on the Waverley Route

Hope this helps

[50C]

60161 was new from Doncaster to 64B in Dec 1949
Jan 51 to Mar 51 at 66A
Mar 51 to Sep 51 at 64B
Sep 51 to Jun 53 at 66A
Jun 53 to Sep 63 at 64B
Sep 63 to 64A where it was withdrawn in Oct 63 and remained on shed till Jan 64.
It was cut up at Inverurie works in Mar 64

I assume that occasionally it would have worked down the WCML to Carlisle when it was at 66A

Hope this is of interest

50c

[Sassanid]

Thanks Guys,

Having been doing a bit of research of my own as well. It would appear to she went a little further south than Carlisle on at least one occasion. Apparently there is a Treacy picture of her at Shap which I am going to try and find.

Tom - do you know what year your recording was?

Does anyone know what year it was when she lost her blue colour?

Thanks for all your help
Andrew

[kudu]

According to Peter Coster's "Book of the A1 and A2 Pacifics" 60161 was repainted on 6 November 1952.

Kudu

[Flamingo]

Pictures of A1s south of Carlisle are pretty hard to locate because most of their duties when based at 66A were either late evening trains such as the up Postal or overnight sleepers. They are said to have worked as far south as Crewe. Odd that 'North British' should have been one of the A1s sent over to Polmadie, for that was an ex-Caledonian shed and there was no love lost between the Caley and the NBR.

[rob237]

Superb Keith Pirt colour picture within of North British leaving northward from Retford, on a 1962 passenger working...seemingly in ex-works condition:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Colour-Steam-Ea ... 110&sr=1-2

Cheers
Robt P.

[Sassanid]

What route did "The Queen of Scots" take in the 50's please (London Kings Cross - Glasgow Queen Street)? Was that via the Waverley? I have found a picture of North British at Waverley Station in 1955 with that headboard.

Andrew

[kudu]

No, the Queen of Scots was LNER all the way: Kings X - Leeds (reverse) - Harrogate - Ripon - ECML - Waverley. (Did it run on to Queen St ? - I believe it did.)

But your question has prompted a query in my mind: what through trains/carriages were there on the Waverley route? For instance, did the Thames-Clyde ever have an Edinburgh portion? If so, surely this would not have been entrusted to the Caley? The idea of travelling both the S&C and the Waverley without changing is most appealing.

Kudu

[Flamingo]

In the 1950s and possibly into the '60s wasn't there also a 'Thames - Forth Express' which left from London St. Pancras and was routed via the Settle & Carlisle and the Waverley? The Midland route was traditionally the partner of the NBR Waverley route.

[harvester]

The Queen of Scots travelled on to Glasgow via Bathgate JCN and Polmont. The Thames Forth Express was retitled the Waverley and did travel via the S&C and Waverley route. The Thames Clyde went north from Carlisle via the Glasgow South Western route calling at Annan, Dumfries, Kilmarnock and Glasgow St Enoch

[Sir Nigel Gresley]

"The Thames - Forth" became "The Waverley", in about 1957, and did indeed travel both S&C and Waverley routes. I seem to recall from my spotting days on the triangle outside Leeds City, that it was a Holbeck working in both directions after reversal in Leeds, although I am not sure whether it changed engines at Carlisle on the northern leg, which would seem to be most likely, handing-over to a Canal or Haymarket pacific.

[harvester]

A point on the locos working the Thames Clyde Express north from Leeds, often Holbecks A3's in the 60's I believe the engine work right through to Glasgow.

[Flamingo]

A point on the locos working the Thames Clyde Express north from Leeds, often Holbecks A3's in the 60's I believe the engine work right through to Glasgow.

It did on one trip I had. Can't be sure, but I believe the loco was 60077. What I do remember is that on leaving the train at Kilmarnock I nearly had my eye poked out by a woman on the platform who was unfolding an umbrella as I stepped out of the carriage.

[kudu]

I'd forgotten about the Thames-Forth. So the Thames-Clyde wouldn't have had an Edinburgh portion, I guess. But there were trains that did both the S&C and the Waverley. There should have been a scenic supplement (refundable when wet).

Kudu