B1 61215 - William henton Carver

[Tranby1]

Hello,

Can anyone shed any light of the naming ceremony of B1 61215. I would like to establish the date at which it occurred and whether the ceremony ws in anyway reported.

[chaz harrison]

Tranby1,

Just had a look in Yeadon Appendix One - Named Engines for you.

It contains pictures of naming ceremonies of B1s with directors and sometimes their families standing in front of newly named engines. But many of the locos had names applied without ceremony.
I quote the caption to a picture of 1215...
"William Henton Carver apparently did not merit any special treatment, this official photograph being taken at Darlington when it came out after being named and the paint touched up as it had already been five months in service."
This suggests that there was no ceremony for this loco.

Yeadon volume 6 on the B1s says that 1215 entered traffic 19/7/47 and was named 12/47
Hope that helps!

Chaz

[rob237]

Contrary to bricam5's version...last post in thread below... straight from the horse's mouth!

61215-william-henton-carver-t2147.html-st=0&sk=t&sd=a

"I was still a passed cleaner when 1215 came to Botanic and I was one of the entire day shift engaged in tarting up this loco before it was driven up the old H&B line to Cave [which is where WHC lived] for the naming ceremony.
I remember been given sheets of emery cloth and told to polish up the connecting rods and motions with strict instructions to leave the piston rods alone..." 26/02/2009.
Footplate ex Botanic Gardens & Bradford GN (Bowling)

Cheers
Robt P.

[chaz harrison]

WOOPS! Just goes to show you can't believe everything you read!

Chaz

[bricam5]

My memory did'nt fail me with regards to 1215.
Although starting as a cleaner,the only engine that I actually cleaned during my time was1215 .
We did everything but clean, lighting up,steam raising,stacking coal etc.
As I mentioned in my earlier post, I had the motions to polish, the guys on the boiler had trays full of some white thick liquid ( we had a name for it but this is a family show) and loads of waste and white cloths. Cab brasswork was polished using bathbrick and the boiler facing using a dab of black oil ( cylinder oil) and lots of rubbing.

I do not remember anything appearing in the Hull Daily Mail about the naming .

[chaz harrison]

Which raises the interesting question, how reliable is Yeadon?

Chaz

[stembok]

Willie Yeadon was extremely meticulous and in the main working from what might be termed 'primary' sources. So it is an invaluable and generally accurate resource. However, any data base is only as accurate as the material entered and slips, typos etc do occur, even in Yeadon. Sometimes, as the distance from events grows and there are differing opinions we just have to agree to differ, unless and until more persuasive evidence turns up. One classic instance is the case of the final runs of the non -stop 'Elizabethan' in 1961 , given by the normally accurate and reliable RCTS in a photo caption of 60022 in 'greeny' 2A as 9/9/61 -though now corrected. The 9th was the Saturday train which had stops, the 8th was the date of the final non-stops. Over the years lots of writers parroted what they had read -it is the RCTS so it must be right - and so mistakes are perpetuated. As the song says,"It ain't necessarily so".

[rob237]

In this instance, Yeadon did not unequivocally state that there was no ceremony...they merely used the adverb apparently.
It was the poster who made the inference.

Perhaps the most ridiculous, and wasteful, exercise involving LNER directors and namings was when Newton? arranged for his daughter's Christian names to be temporarily fitted (on bona fide, full size plates) and photographed attached to 'his' A4!

Cheers
Robt P.

[jwealleans]

Am I right in thinking that was during the war as well? Always struck me as quite ridiculous.

I recall the name 'Davina', but not the others.

[stembok]

It was an indulgence, both of time and money. Fitzherbert Wright, - not Charles Newton - an LNER Director had , in 1944, names cast for his three children and had them displayed on 4486 Merlin at Doncaster Works. They were 1928 Brigid, 1931 Davina and 1934 Bryan. The numbers were their birth years.

[chaz harrison]

In this instance, Yeadon did not unequivocally state that there was no ceremony...they merely used the adverb apparently.
It was the poster who made the inference.

Guilty as charged! But I did say "This suggests that there was no ceremony for this loco", so I wasn't adamant myself.
Can I just say that the most valuable part of a forum like this is the contributions of people like bricam5, who can speak with authority because they were there.
And I withdraw any implied slur on the excellent Yeadon series (which I own several of).

Chaz

[bricam5]

Can I just say that the most valuable part of a forum like this is the contributions of people like bricam5, who can speak with authority because they were there.

Well make the most of me as I am in my 80th year!

[Tranby1]

Hi

A 1961 obituary to WHC published in the Hull Daily Mail references in the headline 'They even Named A Railway Engine After Him' . Apparently WHC travelled on the loco from Hull Paragon to North Cave and 'shunted the loco in Cave Yard'.

[philj]

By chance just found your website and the 61215 topic. At a kid I lived at Everthorpe Borstal, about 1/2 mile from North Cave station. In the late 1950's William Henton Carver used to visit Everthorpe for Sunday afternoon tea with the Governor. He had a very noisey and aged motorised invalid carriage that all the kids followed down Beck Road. His son Major Carver was the District Commissioner of the East Riding Boy Scouts and we often camped on his land in the early 1960's. This was adjacent to the railway embankment and 'The Major' who was quite an authority on the Hull & Barnsley, led walks along the recently closed route, including once through Drawton Tunnel.

Mentioning the H&B Railway, does anyone have any details of the last passenger train from North Cave please. I was almost nine at the time and recall going to Bridlington. This was around Easter 1959 and I think the train must have started from South Howden? I also recall the return train standing for quite some time between South and North Cave stations, perhaps for a 'blow up' or signalling problem. Despite 37 years in the rail industry, I still think of this as one of my best train journeys!!

Thanks, Phil

[PGBerrie]

Phil,

I've been looking in Railway Memories 10, The Hull and Barnsley Railway (Bellcode Books) and it says over a picture of G5 0-4-4T No 67582 and an autoset taken on 30th June 1955 that this was the last day of regular passenger services on the line. Not necessarily the last train, as the shadow suggests the photo was taken late morning or early afternoon.

Later there is a "Short Memories" box for Sunday 21.8.55 which says that the annual South Howden to Bridlington excursion was hauled by Dairycoates L1 No. 67763, handing over to K3 No. 61884 at Hull Paragon - vice versa on the way back. The train had 10 full coaches and called at several stations on the way.

On 28.7.57 the same train was hauled by A5 No. 69811. Earlier in 1957 on 12th May there was a RCTS tour to Hull behind D12 No. 62571,

Peter