ROD 1984

[richard]

Lynn Jackson has sent me a photo for the O4/O5 page of ROD 1984 with her grandfather. No. 1984 is a non-LNER example that happens to be amongst the Australian survivors.

She would like to know the location, and I suspect anything else we might be able to find. Does anyone have a history of ROD locos along the line of Yeadons?

Lynn writes:

I do not have a date but my Grandfather was born 1894, so if First World War he would be 20ish which looks about right. And I do not think they look like they are wearing ordinary railway men clothes, looks more like uniform to me as well.

His Name Richard George Jackson (always known as George or sometimes Jacko I think) Born Lambeth just around the back of the Stuarts Road Depot, where he worked for some time I was told. I even remember the engines coming off the turntable at Brooklands Passage, South Lambeth SW8. He Married in 1920 so also fits and his Son my father (also George Jackson) was also on the railways until after WW2 (Reserved Occupation work??) did not leave the UK. My father was in a bombed building and was trapped and the railway sent him to Salisbury to drive trains to recover, when he came back, someone had been given the next engine driver job, meant for him (you will already know about the working practices and pecking order) and he left working for the railways. Sorry I do not know which company that they worked for I was only 7 when he died so do not remember. My Grandfather was a member of ASLEF and we all went to (working Men’s club) functions at Brunswick House, Vauxhall SW8 every Christmas. Brunswick House, in case you did not know is now an Architectural Salvage specialist Yard.

Richard

[Flamingo]

There are books on the RODs and somewhere I have an issue of Locomotive Profiles about them, but can't find it right now. My first reaction on seeing the picture was Strawberry Hill depot on the LSWR. That railway did have some RODs on loan and the location would be quite possible if the gentleman in question was based at Salisbury, on the same railway. Definitely military uniforms of the 1914-18 period.

[Bill Bedford]

There are books on the RODs and somewhere I have an issue of Locomotive Profiles about them, but can't find it right now. My first reaction on seeing the picture was Strawberry Hill depot on the LSWR. That railway did have some RODs on loan and the location would be quite possible if the gentleman in question was based at Salisbury, on the same railway. Definitely military uniforms of the 1914-18 period.

The book you are looking for is Heavy Goods Engines of the War Department Vol 1 ROD 2-8-0 by JWP Rowledge.

As for ROD 1984:-

Built NBL, delivered 12/1918
On loan LYR 11/19 - 5/20
On loan LNWR 5/20 - 8/21
Queensferry Dump 8/21 - 7/25
Purchased by J&A Brown
Last in steam 7/67
Preserved by Hunter Valley Steam Railway, now The Dorrigo Steam Museum

[hq1hitchin]

doesn't match with grandad being a good sarrf London boy though, does it - mind not sure about the architecture behind the cab/tender ?

[Bill Bedford]

doesn't match with grandad being a good sarrf London boy though, does it - mind not sure about the architecture behind the cab/tender ?

What's being a Londoner got to do with the price of fish? These blokes are in the Army -- they could be any where in the world.

Since the crew are obviously not yet demobbed and the loco was in France from December 1918 until mid 1919 it's almost certain the photo was taken in France.

[richard]

Thanks for the info - I've forwarded it to Lynn. So a bit of a negative as to its location although we have some history of the loco in question.

I've already told her that the museum in Australia will probably be very interested in the photo.


Richard

[rd36143]

Allied to the above, I am also seeking information about a similar ROD locomotive (Robinson / GCR 04 ??).

I am researching my grandfathers service during the First World War and would like to know more about the ROD 2-8-0 engine shown in the attached photo.

I’ve just encountered this website and specifically the exchange of forum messages relating to ROD 1984. I was intrigued by the information provided by forum members and wondered whether there is similar information available about all ROD loco’s.

My grandfather, Charles Coles, the one in the white overalls on the far right of the attached photo, served in the Royal Engineers as a supply train driver. Previous to this (and following the War) he was a driver on the Weston, Clevedon & Portishead Railway.

From the website, I’ve deduced that Charles was pictured against a Robinson / GCR 04 2-8-0 that is very similar to the one in Lynn’s photo, although the attached is fitted with a Westinghouse air brake pump (and thanks to RM for this information).

The attached photo does not show the full ROD number, however there appears to be the start of a white line before the ‘922’, which suggests that this engine and tender is ROD 1922.

According to family tradition, the attached photo is of Charles and his crew taking this, the first supply train into Mons, Belgium following it’s liberation on 11 Nov 1918. I don’t know whether this can ever be validated, however there is a sign on the front of the smoke stack saying ‘MONS’, although I’m not sure whether this denotes it’s destination, or maybe the engine’s home yard.

Any help to provide information about ROD 1922 gratefully received.

Finally, do the white overalls have any significance?

Thanks
Richard

[richard]

Owen Brison writes:

Concerning the photo of ROD 1922, here are some details of the loco,
mostly taken from
"Heavy Goods Engines of the War Department Vol 1, ROD 2-8-0" by
J.W.P. Rowledge, Springmead Railway Books, 1977. Doesn't seem to
have an ISBN.

(a) There is no doubt that it is 1922. The ROD Robinson 2-8-0s carried
numbers between 1601 and 2167: no question of it being 922 or 2922 or
such, while there was indeed a 1922.

(b) ROD 1922 was built in 1918 at the Queens Park Works of the North
British Locomotive Company (in Glasgow), Works number 21899. It was
part of Builder's Order No L.693, which covered RODs 1892-1941 inclusive
(Works numbers 21869-21918).

(c) This loco entered service in France in June 1918

(d) Having returned to GB, the loco went on loan to the Lancashire &
Yorkshire Rly in Nov 1919. Photo A16 in Rowledge's book is captioned as
ROD 1922 while with the L&Y. It doesn't seem to have any legible number
but has what the caption describes as the L&Y crest on the cab side.
It then went on loan to the LNWR in May 1920. While with the LNWR, it
carried their number 2954. It came off loan in Aug 1921 and was held
in a loco dump at Queensferry (wherever that is).

(e) ROD 1922 was sold (for £1500) to the LNER in Feb 1925 and took their
number 6520. It became part of their O4 class, joining many other ex-ROD
locos as well as similar locos originally built by the GCR.
(f) In 1941, ROD1922/LNER6520 was one of a number of O4 class locos
released by the LNER for Government service in the Middle East. The
locos were prepared at Gorton, painted grey and renumbered; 6520 became
723 and then 9723 on arrival overseas. The loco appears to have gone to
Egypt and probably passed into Egyptian State Railway ownership after
its Government service, but Rowledge's book makes no further specific
mention of it.
It appears that none of the O4s that went overseas in 1941 ever returned
to GB.

(g) All the Robinson 2-8-0 locos built for the ROD in W.W.I had
Westinghouse air brakes for the train with the pump on the right hand
side of the smokebox.
As part of Builder's Order L.693, ROD 1922 had steam brakes for the loco
and air brakes for the train. It had a mechanical lubricator, on the
left hand side.
These details are pertinent because later locos, eg ROD 1984 in Lynn's
photo, were built with air brakes for both loco and train and a mechanical
lubricator, while still later locos had air brakes for loco and train and
Robinson's "Intensifore" sight-feed lubricator.

(h) The pattern of ribbed buffer stocks, as shown in the photo of 1922,
seems to have been used on early orders from NBL Queens Park (ROD 1801-
1841 (order L.689) and 1892-1941). Most RODs seem to have had buffer stocks
with "more" ribbing. J&A Brown Nos 17 (ROD 1909) and 19 (ROD 1941) were
from L.693; an early shot of 19 in Brian Andrews' book seems to show the
less-ribbed buffers, but more recent photos of these two locos show the
more ribbed version.
The more ribbed version can be seen in the photo of J&AB24 that I sent
you some time ago.

The following is also a useful reference:
"Loco Profile 21 ROD 2-8-0s" by Brian Reed, Profile Publications, 1972.

Richard

[Bryan]

loco dump at Queensferry (wherever that is).

2 Queensferrys spring to mind

The more logical for LNWR would be on the Cheshire / Flintshire border near Chester.

The other near the Forth Bridge
Any other guesses?

[Flamingo]

The ROD locos were stored at the Cheshire Queensferry not the Scottish one. The location is also sometimes referred to as Sandycroft, which is close to Queensferry on the map I have.

[52D]

I can confirm Queensferry is the Dee side one.

[Boris]

I would suggest that the driver's overalls are not white but very well washed blue as we were issued with in 1947.
Lots of drivers on passenger links, who never had to prepare an engine,[ i.e. oil round] had overalls washed to an almost white state and wo behold the crew that had prepared the engine if the driver's seat wasn't clean when they got on the engine.

[Alan Schofield]

In reply to Lynn Jackson who had a photograph of her Grandfather George Jackson on the ROD1984 locomotive.
There was some debate as to where it was taken and the uniforms?

I was amazed as my Grandfather George Schofield (1893-1974) is second from the right on that photograph which was taken in Coudekerque a few miles from Dunkirk, just over the border from France, in Belgium. Attached is a very similar photograph. I joke that it's ony taken a few minutes later. "Hey lads, this piccy looks a bit boring ...why not hop on the loco and repeat your poses?". It was taken in 1919, probably bound for blighty in the the near future". I do have the original somewhere in the attic with all the soldiers' names on....Jackson is one..attached is a photograph of it.

Grandad served in the Royal Engineers throughout the Great War and was born and lived in Sowerby Bridge near Halifax, West Yorkshire.. I believe he was seconded to the Railway Operative Division mid war and was involved in gun movement behind the lines. I know he was death in one ear as a result!

I found out that ROD1984 is resident at the Dorrigo Steam Locomotive museum in Western Australia. (I have sent a copy of my photograph to the museum several years ago). Hope this sheds more light on the interesting photographs, and locomotive!



.

[gdb]

Please excuse me if I have got this wrong.... the photos appear to show the same engine at the same place with the same people. However, one photo shows the engine with damage to the front left buffer and cylinder wrapper.... and the other photo seems to show an engine without damage to the buffer.

regards, Graham

[richard]

Graham: It looks like the people in the top (Lynn's) photo are strategically placed in front of the damage! Perhaps one 'for the books', and one for themselves? Two photos taken the same day, and now re-united?


Richard