The LNER Encyclopedia

Hello all…

I’m a member of Shipley Model Railway Club & a member of the team building the layout Clayton EM, a station on the Queensbury Lines in the Bradford area. The layout is set in a time period of late 1920s to very early 1930s. The vast majority of the passenger stock in this period was 6 wheel Howldon carriages & articulated sets made from ex 6 wheelers & ex ridged 8 wheelers. But, there was also a number of excursion trains that ran via Clayton & it’s these I’m looking to find details of.

There is mention of a Halifax to Cleethorpes excursion & a period photo taken at Ovendon station with a J1 & N1 double heading & it’s this I’m looking to identify the stock making up the train. The photo gives little incite other than the first coach looks to be a Gresley 3 or 4 compartment corridor brake but after that I have no idea what rest are. There is a second photo showing an exGCR B7? with a portion of an unidentified excursion passing Horton Junction a little further down the line closer to Bradford. The image quality isn’t great but may help identify the type of stock used for excursions on the line in this period.

Any help identifying what stock may have made up these trains or pointer as to where I can find any info would be greatly appreciated & any info I find out I’ll happily share here for those who may be interested.

Many thanks
Chris

Has John Smart already cast his eye over these? It's unlikely you'll get any better advice anywhere.

Chris hasn't been in-touch directly, and I cannot help very much but here goes.

The photo at Horton is of B6 5052. I believe the first two carriages in this train, probably only a portion of the whole excursion, are GN stock and I suspect they are of semi-open types. The first is possibly a Diagram 258 semi open brake third and the second a Diagram 219 semi open third, after that things are not clear enough to comment.

I will give the other photo some thought if I can find a better copy.

John

Slightly OT, but as people concerned with the projct will be looking in here: has anyone picked up on the Clayton coal merchant featured in the latest (Volume 17) Private Owner Wagons volume?

Not sure I have that volume yet JW.

John

Thanks John.

Yeah the image quality isn’t amazing but thanks for having a look.

Cheers
Chris

Not sure I have that volume yet JW.

I found it at Newcastle. It can't have been out long. Page 113, Stringer & Jaggar. The colliery itself was an L & Y branch, but you'd guess the wagons would be common locally.

Clayton West?

John

Yes.

jwealleans wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 6:37 pm Slightly OT, but as people concerned with the projct will be looking in here: has anyone picked up on the Clayton coal merchant featured in the latest (Volume 17) Private Owner Wagons volume?

I got very excited for a moment there thinking we'd totally missed something. Thank you though for sharing it.
There must have been so many businesses along & around the Queensbury Lines that will have had POW. Between Queensbury & Thornton there was John Morton & Co fire brick works. There was also privet sidings at Dean Clough mils in Halifax. There is a photo showing a John Crossley & Sons 7 plank open at Dean Clough on the Queensbury Lines facebook page.

I thought it would be odd if you'd missed it, but just as well to be sure.

JASd17 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 6:31 pm Chris hasn't been in-touch directly, and I cannot help very much but here goes.

The photo at Horton is of B6 5052. I believe the first two carriages in this train, probably only a portion of the whole excursion, are GN stock and I suspect they are of semi-open types. The first is possibly a Diagram 258 semi open brake third and the second a Diagram 219 semi open third, after that things are not clear enough to comment.

I will give the other photo some thought if I can find a better copy.

John

I have been looking up GN Section Excursion workings, of which the LNER Society has a few copies. Some Halifax and Keighley excursions combined at Queensbury and in a couple of cases are shown as 2 carriages from Keighley and 3 from Halifax, if this is the case in the Horton photo there will be another brake carriage at the rear of this train. I cannot date the photo precisely, except that it is after 8-1930, when 'LNER' moved to the tender and before the loco moved to Sheffield in 1934.
By 1936 excursion trains have LNER 64 seat open thirds in the formation, the formation in the photo will not have these and I don't think there is a steel D28 in there either, too many vents on show and all have full footboards, so it is most likely that the whole train is GN stock and probably of similar types to the leading vehicles, so perhaps 2 more semi-open thirds and a semi-open brake third at the rear.

A bit speculative, but the best I can do.

John

More speculation....

In the Horton photo I have access to the last carriage may have a break in the footboards. This would strongly suggest a GN Diagram 284 or 285 semi-open brake third. These did not have continuous footboards like the earlier diagrams. There is a photo of one of these in Michael Harris's GN volume by Oakwood behind a B4 in an Up West Riding excursion, so it did happen.

John

I’m sorry but I hope I am mistaking the above comments regarding “Clayton West” and PO wagons serving it, but Clayton West is NOT the location being modelled by the Shipley club. Clayton West is a location served by a branch of the ex- L&Y Railway’s route (principally to serve the colliery so named) between Huddersfield and Penistone, as opposed to Clayton on the ex- GNR line from Bradford to Queensbury which is the location being modelled.

Herbert Nigel wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2024 2:06 am I’m sorry but I hope I am mistaking the above comments regarding “Clayton West” and PO wagons serving it, but Clayton West is NOT the location being modelled by the Shipley club. Clayton West is a location served by a branch of the ex- L&Y Railway’s route (principally to serve the colliery so named) between Huddersfield and Penistone, as opposed to Clayton on the ex- GNR line from Bradford to Queensbury which is the location being modelled.

Hello

Yes, that's correct our (SMRS) layout is a model of Clayton on the Queensbury Lines that ran between Halifax, Keighley & Bradford. I think it was just a little mix up as Clayton West is not always referred to as so. I did it many times myself in the early stages of the project.

Cheers
Chris